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My English teacher really hates Esperanto | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Esperanto |  | |
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6945 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes  Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 73 of 194 08 November 2007 at 11:49am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Real languages are just as hard, if not harder, to separate from their cultures. The question in both cases is whether one cares for the culture or not, although for languages with an army there may be additional considerations, for example, their usefulness for one's career. What I am not sure about is how many authentic cultural products are to be found in Esperanto - I am not really interested in translations.
I find this to be a weak argument. I mean, there is no human sacrifice involved, at least not yet, and if you take the sum total of the participants in this forum, it sort of looks like a cult too. Your normal person doesn't really need 12 languages any more than he or she needs Esperanto. I actually find remush and his wife's using Esperanto at home quite neat - joint projects like that can only be good for keeping the marriage together, if both participants are equally enthusiastic about it. Mine will have to keep ticking on English for now, at least until I get around to learning Hindi, but I am sure having a second language in common could spice things up a bit, and its being a somewhat conspiratorial one, like Esperanto, would have an added allure. Pillow talk in Esperanto - why not. I hope it's been captured in Esperanto novels. The real problem is that, unlike for Iversen, a "couple of weeks" might not be enough for me to learn Esperanto alphabet, and I have more than enough languages on my plate already. Edited by frenkeld on 08 November 2007 at 12:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6472 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 74 of 194 08 November 2007 at 12:26pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
There are a lot, see my list of Esperanto links in the Links forum for example and check out the sites with original books and music in Esperanto. Even the non-copyrighted books and the artists offering free mp3 on the internet are already quite a lot. Then there's the culture you can experience at meetings, which is just unique. Maybe you could attend the Language Festival after the Universala Kongreso in Rotterdam next summer or the one that regularly takes place in Cheboksari, Russia. That's a way to come into contact with the Esperanto community without speaking Esperanto or signing up for an Esperanto weekend - and language festivals have a lot of appeal for language lovers like us ;-)
Among Esperanto speakers, there are a lot of international marriages where either partner can't speak the other's language (well) and they use Esperanto to communicate all the time. Their children usually grow up at least bilingual, Esperanto being one of the languages.
I highly doubt that. Well, I don't doubt that you have more than enough languages on your plate already, I do, too. But then, who says we aren't allowed to have fun? ;-) Seriously, I doubt that you'd need more than a couple of weeks to learn Esperanto to a level that you can use it for everyday communication or read whatever you want with only occasional glances at the dictionary. Actually, I have a standing offer posted on Buddyschool.com to bring anybody up to "fluent reading" level in Esperanto in 3 months. You, with language learning experience and knowledge of English, French, Spanish and German, should have no problem at all achieving that in half the time or less. Here's what Leo Tolstoy said on this subject:
Edited by Sprachprofi on 08 November 2007 at 12:26pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| furyou_gaijin Senior Member Japan Joined 6388 days ago 540 posts - 631 votes Speaks: Latin* | Message 75 of 194 08 November 2007 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
This is almost verbatim what I stated earlier in this post and my other posts in that thread. I'm glad I'm not the only one to see what is blatantly obvious. Edited by furyou_gaijin on 08 November 2007 at 3:33pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| furyou_gaijin Senior Member Japan Joined 6388 days ago 540 posts - 631 votes Speaks: Latin* | Message 76 of 194 08 November 2007 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Euh... no, I don't. Even without me (or anyone else) pointing out the inconsistencies in your message or getting into the depths of grammatical analysis, you have confirmed quite a few points of the statement that you call rubbish. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| remush Tetraglot Groupie Belgium remush.beRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6270 days ago 79 posts - 94 votes Speaks: French*, Esperanto, English, Dutch Studies: German, Polish | Message 77 of 194 09 November 2007 at 3:55am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Ha Ha! Would it be impolite to ask some precisions about those blatant inconsistencies. Get to the point, please. I am eager to correct. Let's handle those inconsistencies one by one... if any. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| furyou_gaijin Senior Member Japan Joined 6388 days ago 540 posts - 631 votes Speaks: Latin* | Message 78 of 194 09 November 2007 at 5:51am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Ok, I'll be a bit more specific but don't expect me to spend a lot of time arguing any of these points further, for one simple reason: I'm really not that interested.
Funny how you proceed to confirm that Esperanto has all of the below and arrive to the conclusion that it's NOT Indo-European, although it has all of the below. :-) You've lost me right there, I have to say.
They do if they come from an Asian-language background and expect to understand the language directed at them. And neither gender nor the concept of singular/plural (in the way Europeans understand it) are relevant to the Asian semantic view of the world.
The addition of -n to mark complements is clearly a rudiment of the European case system. (Ir-)Relevance of the above grammatical terms you mention for a language as Chinese has been debated by many scholars since time immemorial. Also, books are written explaining the constructions such as 'it rains'. No point in getting into this any deeper here as your whole comment is just too confused.
So you agree here that Esperanto is Indo-European?! Or you don't?! Make up your mind... And strictly speaking, there are no tenses in Chinese.
So once again, you agree it's Indo-European?! Or you don't?!.. As I mentioned above, the concept of number (singular/plural) is irrelevant to the Oriental way of thinking.
Not sure how the quote Google Doc addresses the point. The fact remains that it's all 'Greek' for a Chinese learner.
...and with English eyes when you speak English. How is that relevant to the above discussion?! Anyway, feel free to treat all of my questions above as rhetorical. Or if you prefer to respond, please don't expect any further detailed comments from me. I have had my bit of fun in this thread for now and will leave the field to Those More Passionate About the Cause... (^_-) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| remush Tetraglot Groupie Belgium remush.beRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6270 days ago 79 posts - 94 votes Speaks: French*, Esperanto, English, Dutch Studies: German, Polish | Message 79 of 194 09 November 2007 at 9:47am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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So it's all about Esperanto being Indo-European.
Here are my quotes about that: 1) About Indo-European: you did not read Claude Piron. 2)What is the the highly determined Indo-European way of seeing? If the following remarks are examples of it, then Esperanto is definitively not. If it is, it's not for those reasons. 3)
This is an Indo-European approach of the grammar. Where on earth did I say that Esperanto was not Indo-European. I'll ask you again: Did you read Claude Piron? Esperanto, a western language? La ĉina : mitoj kaj realo Langue occidentale, l'espéranto? Le chinois: idées reçues et réalité L'esperanto, lingua occidentale? Uma língua ocidental, o Esperanto? Ist Esperanto eine westliche Sprache? Эсперанто - западно-европейский язык?¿El esperanto, lengua occidental? and to conclude 我认为中国人学世界语要比学欧洲的语言要容 易得多，而且，对于中国人来说学了世界语后 更有利于学习欧洲的语言。 Xiao Peiliang and that's what matters. Who cares if it is or not Indo-European? Edited by remush on 09 November 2007 at 9:49am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| furyou_gaijin Senior Member Japan Joined 6388 days ago 540 posts - 631 votes Speaks: Latin* | Message 80 of 194 09 November 2007 at 10:57am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I'm sure you'll have a way to explain how the above corresponds to your earlier quote below:
And yes, I have now read Piron's article. To a degree, it contains some of the same flawed logic as your arguments earlier in this thread. But you know what? Let's agree that's the Absolute Truth. I really couldn't care less. I'll briefly restate my position on Esperanto, for the avoidance of doubt: I respect the language as a succesful intellectual achievement yet I dislike its sectarian nature and will never learn it. Discussions in this forum have significantly contributed to strengthening this belief.
Can't believe they called it THAT... :-) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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