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Japanese - Expressing desire that othr do | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Maximus Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6759 days ago 417 posts - 427 votes  Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Thai | Message 1 of 11 09 January 2008 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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Sorry for the poor title. What I want to express is how does one express desire that a situation out of our control ocurres? Or that someone else do something? In this case how is it done in Japanese?
When I was learning Spanish this type of expression was so simple. One just uses "Quiero que + sujuntivo)". In English, such expression is done similarly. What about Japanese? Firstly I will add what I have thought to myself when searching in my mind for an answer. Lately I have seen a lot of nominalizations used to express what the subjuntive in Spanish would express. For example: "Watashi wa kare ni kyoto ni iku KOTO wo susumemasu" - It is transformed into a nominal phrase. In Spanish I beleive that would be "Aconsejo que se vaya a Kyoto", is it not? Again nominalization when the subjunctive would be used in Spanish. Other examples include: "Shashou ni wadakuramon de orosh*te kureru YOU ni tanominasai", which again in Spanish would correspond with the subjunctive. "Pídele al conductor que te deje bajar a wadakuramon" OK, now to the point. Is it safe to deduce that one can use such nominalized structures combined with "hoshii" to express the desire that something happens? For example: "Mister T-San wa/ga kaisha no shachou wo naguru KOTO/NO/YOU ga hoshii desu" to express, "I want Mister T to punch the company president". Can you do this? Or is there another way? Don't shoot me if I am mistaken. This are only what I have formed in my mind trying to answer the gaps in the language. Questioning and finding answers on a mental level is essential. Thank you for any feedback. Luke 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Maximus Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6759 days ago 417 posts - 427 votes Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Thai | Message 2 of 11 09 January 2008 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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"Orosh*te"
WTF? Edited by Maximus on 09 January 2008 at 6:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| furrykef Senior Member United States furrykef.com/ Joined 6482 days ago 681 posts - 862 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Latin, Italian | Message 3 of 11 09 January 2008 at 9:31pm | IP Logged | ||
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That's the forum's censor in action. It thinks you said the "S word".
Frankly, I despise the censor and think it should be taken off. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| karashi Tetraglot Groupie Japan Joined 6587 days ago 81 posts - 81 votes Speaks: French*, English, Japanese, German Studies: Russian | Message 4 of 11 09 January 2008 at 10:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi,
I forgot all about grammar but here are some example sentences and nuances :). "I want Mister T to punch the company president". Tさんに社長を殴ってほしい。 （Tさんにしゃちょうをなぐってほしい） Tさんに社長を殴ってほしいです。 Tさんに社長を殴ってほしいですね。(you are with someone else looking at T-san and the boss speaking together (they cannot hear you). you also don't like the boss) Tさんが社長を殴るといいですね。(same as above, maybe you just wish him to do it because it'll be fun?) I wish it would rain (approx translation in japanese, not exactly the same but that what's one would say) 雨になるといいですね。(speaking to a collegue) 雨になるといいな。(speaking to oneself/close friend) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Maximus Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6759 days ago 417 posts - 427 votes Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Thai | Message 5 of 11 10 January 2008 at 5:44am | IP Logged | ||
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Ahh. I see. Thankyou for your helful information.
So it is always: The agent marked by NI and use of the TE-form before hoshii? Thanks for your advice. I knew about the existence of the "To ii desu" form, I just wanted to explore the other potential ways of expressing desires that others do something. Is the "to ii desu" form used more frequently as it is more impersonal? One question about the "to" your example sentences. Is this just another way of employing the conditional? Could it be equally rendered "T-san ga shachou wo naguttara ii desu"? So I take it a nominalized phrase plus hoshii would be a no no. Is that so? By the way, I apologize for using this stupid ugly romaji. How do you input real script? Do you just use one of those transcription programs like that of Wakan then just copy and paste the text? Or is there another way? Thankyou very much Luke 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| furrykef Senior Member United States furrykef.com/ Joined 6482 days ago 681 posts - 862 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Latin, Italian | Message 6 of 11 10 January 2008 at 8:32pm | IP Logged | ||
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If you use Windows, then probably the best way is to use the Microsoft IME. It comes with Windows 2000 and above, and can be downloaded for older versions. You can find information here for example.
- Kef 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| nhk9 Senior Member Canada Joined 6814 days ago 290 posts - 319 votes Speaks: English* | Message 7 of 11 10 January 2008 at 8:57pm | IP Logged | ||
Hi Luke ..ni -te hoshii is a common way to express the above, but there are other ways too. Another common way is to say ..ni -te moraitai -tara ii is used more often than -to ii in colloquial Japanese. They are for the most part interchangeable (but of course some textbooks would argue otherwise). One must pay attention to using -ba ii, since that's a little different from -tara ii. I will not go into detail regarding the conditionals since I think you probably know something about them already. Anyway a good intermediate level textbook should do the trick for you here. A nominalized phrase plus hoshii would not be grammatically incorrect, but -te hoshii would definitely be the one preferred. Overusing nominalized phrases would render your Japanese awkward. Doing so is analogous to saying something "I like the act of looking at fireworks" in English. Ime is the way to go if you use Windows. Otherwise, the quick and dirtiest trick is to download the free program called 'NJstar'. Try google this and see what you will find. Darren 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| karashi Tetraglot Groupie Japan Joined 6587 days ago 81 posts - 81 votes Speaks: French*, English, Japanese, German Studies: Russian | Message 8 of 11 10 January 2008 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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Darren gave good advice :).
Also you should be aware of the difference between the two groups: 〜といい、〜たらいい、〜ばいい： you wish something to happen 〜てほしい、〜てもらいたい、〜ていただき たい： you wish that someone does something "for" you (even if that person does not intentionally do it for you, but from your point of view it is for you, in the sense you benefit from it) edit: removed strange space (but it appeared again.... (@_@)) Edited by karashi on 10 January 2008 at 9:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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