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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6709 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1073 of 3959 06 July 2009 at 11:37am | IP Logged | |||||
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ROM: Pe Internet, exista multe colectii de ştiri în mai multe limbi, care sunt excelente pentru cei care studiază limbi, pentru că stilul lor in mod general nu este fie experimental, fie familiar. În plus, fiecare informaţie e scurtă şi concisă. Am menţionat deja www.tvr.ro unde existe o secţiune pentru ingineria si ştiinţa. Aici se vede, de exemplu, că papa a recunoscut un schelet îngropat sub San Pietro cum a rămăşiţele apostolului Pavel. Probe C14 sugerează o vârstă potrivită, şi locaţie desubt o inscripţie care spune "Paulo Apostolo Mart" pare probabil, dar se spune că o sondă a căutat în mormânt şi a găsit resturi de purpur şi de aur. Spune-mi, este posibil să fi îngropat un sarac prizonier decapitat cu atît de lux - şi s-a verificat dacă este îngropat capul său la o distanţă corespunzătoare de la gat? Poate fi ca catolici să cred ca papa să fie infailibil, dar un pic de scepticism sănătos nu este deplasat.
De fapt, eu am rămas deja într-un loc unde Pavel ar fi fost: în oraş vechi din Damasc ((Arabic: دمشق, Dimashq, commonly known as الشام al-Shām also known as City of Jasmin Arabic: مدينة الياسمين ) se poate vizita camera, in care el ar trebui să-şi vindeceze după a lui conversie de pe drumul Damascului. De asemenea, am văzut gaura pe care a petrecut, când a ieşit în grabă din oraş. Aceasta, ar trebui, desigur, ca eu să-l scrie în arabă, care este limbajul curent, sau în aramaică pe ce l-au vorbit in antichitate, dar din păcate astă nu e posibil. Am de fapt vizitat oraşul Maalula în care limba aramaică este încă vorbită - şi am auzit-o în biserica locală. Este destul de interesant, dar eu sunt pe deplin conştient de faptul că niciodată eu n-am fi aflat timp să studiez aramaică. Existău doar 24 ore pe zi pentru noi toţi. -------- There are many collections of news on the internet in all kinds of languages, including Romanian. I have read at the page http://www.tvr.ro/stiri.php that the Pope now has declared that a corpse buried under St. Peters is in fact that of the apostle Paulus: C14 tests indicate an age of slightly less than 2000 years, and the skeleton lies under a sign that says "Paul Apostle Martyr"- but then the archeologists have also peeked inside the grave with one of these cameras on a tube, and they could see gold and purpur. Ahem, gold and purpur in the grave of a beheaded itinerant convict, who was surely poor as a doormouse? Who put it there, - and when? And did the scientists remember to check that the head of the skeleton didn't stick to his neck? The pope may be considered infallible by the catolics, but a bit of sound scepticism may not be quite out of order here. Apart from that, I have in fact visited a place that Paul is supposed to have visited while still alive, namely the very room in the old town of Damascus where he supposedly should have stayed right after his conversion on the road to Damascus - and also the hole in a wall through which he is said to have left the town. Unfortunately I can't write about these things in the current language there, Arabian, nor in the language from the time of Paul & co, Aramaic. But at least I have had the pleasure of hearing with my own ears this ageold language in the small town Maalula, where it is still spoken. PS: through Reineke's blog - which in itself is worth a look - I found another interesting language blog. I thoroughly sympathized with the well-founded protest from an author named Pilgrim who found his book about the programming-language Python being mangled by a copy editor with no sense, but tons of ill-conceived false ideas about the English language. It sounded almost kafkaesque, and I can only deplore that the name of this fiend of the English language wasn't dragged through the mud as a warning to others. If a person earns money on correcting the language of others that person should at least know his/her own language, including its variation range. I also enjoyed the deconstruction of a French philosopher Derrida, who was popular in some circles during my study time in the 70s and father to the term "grammatology". The simple and effective method to debunk this pretentious charlatan was to take a sentence, change some words so that they meant the exact opposite and then ask some of his supporters to point out the original version. Hehe. The fact that a man that never said anything in a clear and logical way could become an icon for his fellowmen - at least for a time - just shows that there are people out here who would find it disturbing if they could understand their guru. And it also once and for all disproves the notion that the French language should be particularly logical - in the hands of a Derrida and most of his philosopher collegues it is a fecund source of flowery meaningless noise. Edited by Iversen on 07 July 2009 at 7:53am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6709 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1074 of 3959 07 July 2009 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
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LAT: Sanctus Paulus certe in locibus inesperatibus apparet! Heri scripsi quod papa nuntiabat corporem Paulis repertus sub ecclesia Sancti Petri Romae esse. Hodie Ephemerida mihi informat, ut imaginem valde veterem Pauli in catacomba Sanctae Teclae reperta est, etiam in urbe Roma. Virem barbae lungae et calvum videmus, et praeterea "verisimiliter morbo comitiali" (sive Graece 'epilepsia') adfectus esset atque praeditus "indole valde morosa". Sic explicatur experientia sua in via ad Damascum, - epilepsia!
Sed alter connectio tamen est: urbs parva syriae Maalula monasterium habet nomine Theklae. Et ipse Paulus fuit qui Theklae induxit matrimonium negare et se quam uxorem Christi videre (id quod parientibus suis valde displicebat). Deinde in fuga ad Maallula venit, et ad aetatis suae XC annis ibi mortua est. Miser nonnullus papa in anniis 1960 Theklam ex sancta hagiographiam eradicabat. Considerando quod illic restat, istud valde iniuste est. Cur non potius Paulum abnegare? Vae Thekla! Et nunc lingva aramaicum in Maalula rapide regredere dicitur… ---------- St. Paul turns up in the most unexpected places! Yesterday I wrote about the Pope's announcement that the bones of Mr. Paul have been found under St. Peters, and now Ephemerida - the Latin internet newspaper - announces that a portrait has turned up in the Catacombs of St. Tekla. But there is one information more: it is speculated that he suffered from epilepsy. That certainly would explain many aspects of the famous episode on the road to Damascus, where he saw lights and heard voices. But there is one funny connection more: the Aramaic-speaking town Maalula has a St. Thekla monastery. And it was no one but Paulus who convinced her not to get married, but then her parents wanted to burn her alive and feed her to the lions and chop her into small pieces, so she had to flee for her life and she somehow ended up in Maalula. Unfortunately she was removed from the official list of saints in the 1960s, which is somewhat surprising when you see the long list of spurious names who have been allowed to remain on that list. Poor Thekla. And as if that wasn't enough the Aramaic language in Maalula and a couple of nearby villages is allegedly dying out ... Edited by Iversen on 08 July 2009 at 12:05am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5904 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes Speaks: French*, Dutch, German | Message 1075 of 3959 07 July 2009 at 10:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
How horrible, what nasty and evil parents.
Yes, poor Thekla :-( I'm wondering why in the 1960s? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6709 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1076 of 3959 07 July 2009 at 11:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I totally agree, those parents were not nice people - but I have taken the story straight out of the Rough Guide, so it must be true.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6709 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1077 of 3959 08 July 2009 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I was asked some time ago to make up a sentence in each of my languages, and the result can be seen below. I just wanted to keep it somewhere, but it isn't really worth reading - it is more fun to write about scientific or historical themes, but I'm going to surf a bit rather than writing more now.
DA: Det hele begyndte naturligvis med dansk, eftersom jeg er dansker. Jeg mindes ikke selv at jeg var særligt tidligt udviklet, men min tante påstod at jeg lå på gulvet og læste undertekster på hendes TV som 5-årig (vi havde ikke selv TV på det tidspunkt). Formodentlig huskede hun galt af tidspunktet. ENG: The next language I learned was English, - from around 3. class in school, at which point I was roughly 9-10 year old. We had TV now, and in Danish TV films aren't dubbed, so I heard a lot of English - such as Fred Flintstone's Yabadabadooo. Nowadays I probably see more TV in English than in Danish, and I also read a lot in English. Sometimes I think in English instead of Danish even while I'm at home in Denmark, which probably is an indication that it has become almost a native language for me. However I get very irritated at people who use English just to seem international and global and 'smart'. GER: Die erste ausländischen Fernsehsender, die wir in meiner Familie sehen konnten, waren Deutsch, und in der Schule gab es auch bald Deutschunterricht. Später habe ich ganz viel Deutsch gesprochen während meiner Reisen, - Deutschland ist so zu sagen die Pforte Europas für uns Dänen, wir müssen immer Deutschland passieren um irgendwo zu gelangen außer wenn wir fliegen - und Interrailer fliegen nicht. PLATT: Norddüütsche Rundfunk hat johrelang plattdüütsche Sennen hatt. Dat is nu fast över, aver ik halt mien Platt mit Bööken un Internet lebennig. Ik kann 't doch nich snacken. DU: Nederlands is een van de meest recente toevoegingen aan mijn repertoire. Ik heb lang de algemeene inhoud van Nederlandse teksten kunnen verstaan omdat de taal veel gemeen met de Duitse taal hat, maar het is alleen in de laatste twee jaaren dat ik ik direct de taal heeft studeerd, en het gaat nu redelijk goed. AF: Nederlands is 'n goeie baseer vir leer afrikaans. Ek het gekoop 'n goeie woordeboek en kan ook vind iets om te lees, maar ek het hoor baie weinig afrikaans (selfs gedurende my besoeke daar), so ek kan nie praat afrikaans nie. SW: Jag har länge kunnat se svensk TV, och jag har också læst många svenska böker (vilket var möjligt på basis av likheten med danska), men jag beslutade endast för ett år sedan att lära mig språket på allvar, och jag gör fortfarande många dansk-inspirerade fel. Å andra sidan har jag ett stort ordförråd och inga problem alls att förstå språket. NO(B): Jeg har også i noen år kunnet se norsk TV (men ikke så lenge som svensk TV), og normal skriftlig norsk (det såkallte bokmål) er svært lik dansk. Men jeg syns at nynorsk er gøyere, så inntil jeg har funnet tilpas mye materiale på det også, ønsker jeg ikke å fordybe meg i norsk. IC: Ég gerði fÿrsta reynd með islenzka málið í mitt timabíl á Háskolan í Aarhúsi, þá ég fór á namskeið til þess að lera að lesa eddukvæði á fornislenzku.. Eg hef fyrir skömma slítað við að lera nútiða islenzk, og ég get nú lesið málið nálegt án orðabokar, en varla tala hið. LAT: Prima lingua romanica mea facte fuit lingua latina. A puero studiavi nomenclaturae animalium, et animali nomina latina habent, ergo resolui vocabularium latinum accipere aetatis meae X - XI anni. Postea (in lyceo) grammataticam accepi artemque vertendi, sed modo libenter scribere ac cogitare mihi ipse docui de anno MMVII, et semper mihi non putor etiam latine volubiliter loqui posse. FR: J'ai appris le français au lycée, mais comme élève dans une classe de de la ligne mathématique-physique c'était vraiment à rebours. Notre prof a essayé de nous apprendre la langue par la méthode naturelle, mais juste une demi-année avant l'examen il a reconnu que l'expérience avait échoué. Or, étant un pédagogue extrèmement doué, il a réussi à apprendre à cette pitoyable classe d'idiots assez de la langue française pour que la majorité entre nous passent l'examen - moi inclus. Et plus tard j'ai même choisi d'etudier le français à l'université d'Aarhus au Danemark. A.FR: Com estudiant dou nouvel françois, je ot certainement ansaignement en la langue d'oïl. Je puis encore lire les livres anciens, mais ne mie discourir dans ciste variante dou françois. IT: Avevo infatti cominciato i miei studi della lingua Italiana a la casa prima di avere classe di francese al liceo, - principialmente perché l'italiano è la lingua franca della musica classica. Durante il mio periodo all'università seguí qualche corse regolare per gli studenti d'italiano senza averme mai iscritto a questo studio, - oggi questo non sarebbe possibile. SP: Empecé a aprender el español porque me encontré con un libro de texto del mismo autor e con la misma estrutura que el libro que usaba para mis estudios de Italiano. Non era posible seguir los cursos de español a l'universidad porque las plazas ya se llenaban de estudiantes de español, peró he podido habilitarme en español durante algunos viajes en Latinamerica durante los años noventa CAT: Hi havia a l'universitat un profesor agregat que s'havia fet especialista de la llengua catalana, e naturalment vaig seguir els seus cursos d'aquesta llengua insòlita. No he hagut ninguna occasió per a utilitzar-lo de 1982, ón vaig deixar a l'universitat, fins que jo en el any 2006 hagi tornat als meus estùdi de les llengues. Peró durant el meu viatje recent a Catalunya he pogut evitar de parlar cap altra llengua durant el meu sojorn. POR: Sómente encontrou a lingua portuguesa durante o meu tempo a l'universidade à ocasão dum curso de aprendizagem das línguas romances através das suas semelhanças. Quando eu comprou um viagem às Ilhas de Cabo verde no ano 2008 não podia compreender e quase não ler o português, mas conseguiu atingir um nivel num só mês que me permitia falar um pouco com os caboverdianos. Depois tenho visitado Moçambique e Portugal sem falar outra coisa dou português. ROM: Românesc este o altă limbă pe care l-am învăţat la universitate. Am urmat de trei ani cursuri cu două profesori diferiţi nativi, asa ca am fost destul de bun la vorbind-o în 1981. Dar apoi a venit 25 de ani de abstinenţă. Eu m-am rê-invâţat aceasta limba la ultimii trei ani, dar nu am multe ocazie să vorbesc româneşte în Danemarca ESP: Mi ne apliĝis multan tempon la lernado de esperanto, sed estas tolereble simpla idiomo, kaj oni devas nur eviti iujn gramatikajn insidojn, ekzemple ke nur 'esti' estas kapabla de esti helpaverbo kun partizipo. GR: Έμαθα τα ελληνικά γράμματα στη φυσική ώρες στο σχολείο - αλλά το υπόλοιπο του γλώσσα ήταν έναν αγώνα! Έμαθα το κατáλειπο της γλώσσας - καλά, τα βασικά - μεταφράζοντας ένα βιβλίο για την Ρόδο στα δανικá, χρησιμοποιώντας ένα λεξικό και μιά γραμματική, αλλά τώρα νομίζω ότι τα πράματα πάνε αρκετά καλά. Ίσως θα επισκεφθούν την Ελλάδα πάλι το φθινόπωρο, έτσι ελπίζω να είναι σε θέση να μιλήσουν στην γλώσσα. RU: Русский язык, несомненно, является языком, который причинил мне больше всего проблем. Я использовал тот же метод, что я использовал греческий язык, но прогресс был медленным, и я делаю слишком много ошибок. Но когда я узнаю о русском языке, я считаю, что и другие славянские языки последует достаточно скоро. Edited by Iversen on 09 July 2009 at 12:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5853 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 1078 of 3959 08 July 2009 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
DE: Die multilinguale persönliche Sprachgeschichte ist sehr interessant zu lesen. Für mich spielt Niederländisch die gleiche Rolle wie für dich Englisch. Ich benutzte die Sprache ganz natürlich wie eine Muttersprache zu allen Gelegenheiten. Wenn ich Schriftstellerin wäre, würde ich lieber auf Niederländisch schreiben. Dass Deutschland für Dänemark die Pforte Europas ist, kann ich geographisch nachvollziehen. Da wäre ich so gar nicht drauf gekommen. Man liest in Deutschland sehr wenig über Dänemark, das gilt auch für die anderen kleinen Nachbarländer. Wenn man sich besser informieren will, dann sollte man die dänische Sprache lernen. Ich habe leider im Leben nie Interrail gemacht. Das ist eine Lebenserfahrung, die an mir vorbeigegangen ist. Soetwas kann man später im Leben nicht mehr nachholen. Dafür habe ich als einzige Ausländerin an niederländischen Jugendlagern teilgenommen und hatte dort mein sprachliches Highlight. Ich war ganz unglücklich, als ich die obere Altersgrenze von 25 Jahren überschritten hatte und damit aufhören musste. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 08 July 2009 at 11:05pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5904 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes Speaks: French*, Dutch, German | Message 1079 of 3959 09 July 2009 at 1:04am | IP Logged | |||||
LOL!!! había visto «ESP» y pensé que sería español: empecé leerlo y he pensado, pues ¡¡¡qué raro sea este dialecto de español!!!! hahahaha Ik heb jouw interview gelezen en jouw foto gezien. Sta je in jouw woning, en zijn die schilderijen achter je? Dit stond allemaal op de website waar Fasulye ook geïnterviewd werd. Fantastisch gedaan!!! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5904 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes Speaks: French*, Dutch, German | Message 1080 of 3959 09 July 2009 at 1:28am | IP Logged | |||||
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Auf meinem LOG bin ich mit einem Korrespondenzspiel angefangen. teilnehmen bitte!!!
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