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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6709 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1081 of 3959 09 July 2009 at 10:37am | IP Logged | |||||
Been there, done that
DU: De foto is genomen in het huis van mijn moeder, maar dat is mijne schilderijen (het is ook mij op de kleine foto, hamering op een typemachine). Ik heb door vele jaren surrealistische schilderijen gemaakt, maar stopte rond 1995 want ik had genoeg schilderijen (ongeveer 150). Ik heb onder andere een serie schilderijen gemaakt waarin elk beeld een bepaald literair werk in een taal ïllustreert. Nu zit ik op mijn werk, maar deze avond als ik thuis ben, zal ik een foto uit de serie op dit bericht aanhechten. FR: D'ailleurs je continue à lire mon livre sur les expressions idiomatiques dans l'autobus (et maintenant je lis encore plus que d'ordinaire puisque les journaux gratuits ne sont pas là durant les vacances scolaires). Et j'utilise la méthode de la traduction hyperliterale, - c'est-à-dire au lieu de répéter bêtement chaque expression dix fois dans ma tête j'en fait des traductions hyperlitérales en Danois, Anglais ou dans une quelconque autre langue. J'ai l'impression que cela m'aide à mémoriser ces expressions. Les expressions françaises sont souvent drôles, mais parfois je connais une expression parallèle en danois qui est encore plus ridicule. Par example les Français disent "s'humecter le gosier' (boire), tandis que nous disons "fugte nedløbsrøret". J'ai essayé de trouver une traduction du mot 'nedløbsrøret', mais la tuyuaterie est toute une science, donc je vais me borner à dire que c'est le tuyau verticale (dite 'descente') d'une gouttière vers le sol. Il y a une autre expression: "boire comme un trou", - en Danois on dit "drikke som et hul i jorden" (boire comme un trou dans la terre). J'ai aussi trouvé un site avec des expressions idiomatiques russes, mais je vais écrire la-dessus plus tard. ---------- Jar-Ptitsa asks whether the paintings behind me at the interview on the site www.helpwithstudy.com are from my own flat. In fact they are decorating a wall in my mother's house, but I painted them (it's also me on the small photo, hammering away on a typewriter). I have produced surrealistic paintings from around 1970 to around 1995, - by then I had around 150, and I didn't want to sell them so I had to stop. Among other things I made a series of paintings while I still studied French, each one illustrating one literary work in a certain language. And just as with my hyperliteral translations the idea was to take everything in that poem or novel literally. I'm right now thinking about making a series of posts here based on those paintings, - for the benefit of those who still read literature. Besides I continue to read my book about French idioms, and in order to remember them I use the idea of making hyperliteral translations into other languages instead of just turning each expression ten times unaltered in my head. I give some examples of parallel expressions in French and Danish, but it doesn't really make sense to translate that section into English (where there are already more than enough expressions for heavy drinking). I have furthermore found a site on the internet with Russian idiomatic expressions, but I'll write something more about that later (when I have got my dictionaries within reach). Edited by Iversen on 07 November 2009 at 1:47am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Anya Pentaglot Senior Member France Joined 5799 days ago 636 posts - 708 votes Speaks: Russian*, FrenchC1, English, Italian, Spanish Studies: German, Japanese, Hungarian, Sanskrit, Portuguese, Turkish, Mandarin Studies: Ancient Greek, Hindi | Message 1082 of 3959 09 July 2009 at 11:20am | IP Logged | |||||
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Iversen wrote: RU: Русский язык, несомненно, является языком, который причинил мне больше всего проблем. Я использовал тот же метод, что я использовал греческий язык, но прогресс был медленным, и я делаю слишком много ошибок. Но когда я узнаю о русском языке, я считаю, что и другие славянские языки последует достаточно скоро.
It's not bad! I have only two correction to suggest: Я использовал то же метод, что и при изучении греческого языка Но когда я буду хорошо знать русский язык, тогда быстро последуют и другие славянские языки 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6709 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1083 of 3959 09 July 2009 at 11:49am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks
Only two corrections, but quite fundamental it seems! I can see that I have written "тот" instead of "то", and "последует" should of course have been "последуют". I should have caught those myself, but the rest have something to do with my deficient sense for the proper way of thinking in Russian, and that is something that only will change slowly. In the first sentence I should have formed the subordinate around a noun instead of a verbum - OK, I'll look out for other examples of this. In the second I should have used the compound future of an imperfective verb instead of relying on the futuric meaning of the 'present' tense of the corresponding perfective verb (and without the 'o'). And I didn't exploit the full potential of the correlatives "когда/тогда" and relied instead on a more cumbersome construction with a completive phrase. I have a tendency to do other things than reading Russian precisely because it doesn't run as automatically as with my other languages, but there is no doubt that I should spend more time on this language. But all is not lost - right now I'm studying the homepage of the Paleontological Museum of Moscow, though it doesn't amount to much compared with those complete novels that other students of Russian gobble up as candy - with or without audio. Edited by Iversen on 09 July 2009 at 11:51am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Anya Pentaglot Senior Member France Joined 5799 days ago 636 posts - 708 votes Speaks: Russian*, FrenchC1, English, Italian, Spanish Studies: German, Japanese, Hungarian, Sanskrit, Portuguese, Turkish, Mandarin Studies: Ancient Greek, Hindi | Message 1084 of 3959 09 July 2009 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Unfortunately I am not strong in grammar terminology!!!
In the second phrase the problem is not in the verb conjugation, I think, but in the "context" of the world using. The verb "узнавать" is not used to speak about the language study (but used in the sense "to know something new", "to get new information", for example: "он узнал много нового" — "he learned a lot of new things"; or in the sense "to inquire about" "to find out", for example: "нам надо узнать, когда прибывает самолёт" — "we need to find out when the plane arrives"; or in the sense "to know better", speaking about the person: "теперь он её лучше узнал" — "he knows her better now". By the way, I found these examples in the Russian website "Яндекс Словари": http://slovari.yandex.ru/ which is very useful for translation from and to Russian. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tricoteuse Pentaglot Senior Member Norway littlang.blogspot.co Joined 6684 days ago 745 posts - 845 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Norwegian, EnglishC1, Russian, French Studies: Ukrainian, Bulgarian | Message 1085 of 3959 09 July 2009 at 12:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
But there are tons of reading material in Russian that is non-fiction! Just go browse through UZ-translations for a while, or Avaxhome. No matter how many novels I gobble down my phrases still remain unrussian and weird ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6709 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1086 of 3959 09 July 2009 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Русский язык полон ловушек! В главном словаре в Интернете я нашел это: "come to know: узн(ав)ать" … этот перевод не показывает, что узн(ав)ать не используется о предметaх, что я учусь в течение долгого времени, и наконец я изучил их. Используется о вещах, которые Вы не знали, и теперь Вы внезапно знаете их. Маленький словарь Берлитза указывает "узна(ва)ть:know (again), recognize, learn, find out".
Палеонтологический музей им. Ю.А.Орлова является неотъемлемой частью Палеонтологического института РАН. Ю.А.Орлова был академикom, который восстанавливал музей после годы Великой Отечественной войны, но некоторые из выставок музея относятся ко к самим Петром I. Строительство нового музея в южной части края в Москве началось в 1972 году и продолжалась до 1987 года, а в 2008 году я посетил музей. В этом журнале мы обсудили Пермское исчезновение. Хорошо, у этого музея есть одна из самой прекрасной коллекции в мире животных, которые исчезли тогда: на едином подиуме Вы видите семь скелетов парейазавров скутосауров и парейазавров и скелет горгонопса Inostrancevia alexandri. Эти и другие скелеты были найдены около российской реки Двины сто лет назад. Мы также обсуждали животном мире от докембрия период, который проходит под именем Ediacaria (эдиакарскую фауна). Вот это, в зале 2 из музея! Между прочим, интересно отметить, что 'Precambrian' сказал нечто вроде ' Precambrian' на большинстве языков ('prækambrium' на датском языке), но 'докембрия' на русском языке. И, конечно, этот музей имеет скелет взрослого мамонта, но прекрасная мумия младенца Любы не идет в Москву, это будут посылать музею в Санкт-Петербурге. ---------- OK, "узн(ав)ать" can apparently only be used about things that you didn't know before, and now you suddenly know them (because you have learnt about them) - whereas languages are learnt gradually and without a clear treshold. You can "знать" a language, but then the process of working your way up to a certain level isn't evident. And these things are not easy to read out of dictionaries. I have mentioned my visit to he Paleontological Museum of Moscow before, but now I mention it again. It is named after the man, "U.A.Orlov", who reestablished it after the 'great fatherland-war' (the 2. world war), and is part of an institute called RAN. Its present building is right at the Southern edge of Moscow, the building process started in 1972 and the museum opened for the public in 1987, and it is worth the long travel in the metro. The funny thing is that many of the things we have discussed in this log are illustrated in the museum. For instance there is an awesome collection of the animals that disappeared near the end of the Permian (found near a river called Dvina), and there is also a good collection of animals from the socalled Ediacaria fauna, which existed for a while during the Precambrian (which incidentally is called the "do-cambrian" in Russian). And of course there is also a big skeleton of an adult mammoth here, but to see the famous baby Ljuba you have to go to Sankt Petersburg. Edited by Iversen on 09 July 2009 at 3:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| bluejay390 Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6284 days ago 227 posts - 259 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Malay, Italian | Message 1087 of 3959 09 July 2009 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
You painted those? That is so amazing! They look very interesting. Nice job with the interview too. As someone who loves art and still reads literature, I support you making posts based on the paintings! I like the concept. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6709 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1088 of 3959 09 July 2009 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
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GER: Gut, dann werde ich natürlich auch etwas davon zeigen. Das erste Gemälde zeigt Kafka und nicht eines, aber mehrere seiner Werke. Der Käfer heißt natürlich Gregor Samsa, Im Hintergrund sieht man das Schloß, und vor dem wird Joseph K aus dem Prozeβ planmässig ermordet. Schlieβlich gibt es irgendwo eine kleine Erzählung von einem Maus, der sich nicht entschlieβen konnte, der Katze zu entweichen:
„Ach“, sagte die Maus, „die Welt wird enger mit jedem Tag. Zuerst war sie so breit, daß ich Angst hatte, ich lief weiter und war glücklich, daß ich endlich rechts und links in der Ferne Mauern sah, aber diese langen Mauern eilen so schnell aufeinander zu, daß ich schon im letzten Zimmer bin, und dort im Winkel steht die Falle, in die ich laufe.“ — „Du mußt nur die Laufrichtung ändern“, sagte die Katze und fraß sie. 
OK, I promised to show some of my old paintings, and then I'll of course do it. This first painting takes its themes from not one, but several works of Franz Kafka. The big beetle is - or was - a young man named Gregor Samsa, who woke up one morning and dicovered that there had been a slight change in his looks since the day before. The castle to the upper right is of course The Castle, and in front of the castle some anonymous persons murder Joseph K from the Process. Finally there is a small mouse in the foreground who for some infathomable reason couldn't make up its mind to run away from the cat. Edited by Iversen on 09 July 2009 at 7:18pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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