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prz_ Tetraglot Senior Member Poland last.fm/user/prz_rul Joined 4860 days ago 890 posts - 1190 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish
| Message 17 of 58 22 June 2013 at 1:35am | IP Logged |
Опрости, но я не знал, какого ты пола :Д
Да, у нас был старославянский. Он иногда полезен, но...
Я не верю, что в Норвегии филология может быть так ужасна! К счастью, моя филология очень практическа. Ну, по большей части.
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| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian*
| Message 18 of 58 22 June 2013 at 3:10pm | IP Logged |
tricoteuse wrote:
Да, я изучила русский язык в университете тут. Наш факультет достаточно старомодный - у
нас преподавание русского сосредоточится на грамматике и на переводе (с норвежского на
русский, что для меня вообще нелепо). Мы очень мало читаем; если хочешь изучить
литературу и через литературу и познакомиться с языком, надо сам выбрать такие курсы
(их очень мало), и следовательно, на них ходят очень разные люди, большинство из
которых - русские, которые только хотят добиваться больше баллов без усилия. Кроме
грамматики (большая часть которой теоретическая, то есть мы пишем маленькие научные
"статьи") и переводов, у нас есть старославянский как основная часть изучение русского
(!!) на высшем уровне. Поэтому, мои друзья из программы русского языка сегодня не имеют
говорить по-русски, а только немного понимают и могут тебе объяснить теоретическую
систему видов глагола. Мы редко сами писали или говорили по-русски. Только вечные
переводы. Те, кто знают русский, почти все прожили год в России или в Белоруссии.
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Is it typical for all languages or only for Russian?
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| tricoteuse Pentaglot Senior Member Norway littlang.blogspot.co Joined 6679 days ago 745 posts - 845 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Norwegian, EnglishC1, Russian, French Studies: Ukrainian, Bulgarian
| Message 19 of 58 22 June 2013 at 4:39pm | IP Logged |
Марк wrote:
Is it typical for all languages or only for Russian? |
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I think it's rather typical for Russian only. One of my teachers was very surprised
when he found out that in the French/German/etc departments, they don't translate INTO
their target languages, but FROM them. I.e. I think the people in the Russian
department they believe that the only way to learn a language is to translate into it.
I also know that the Japanese program is way more practically oriented.
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UKRAINIAN
I finally finished the second long "short story" in my Vinnichenko book, "На той бік".
It's the story of a well-to-do doctor who loses everything when the Bolsheviks come.
One day he sees a young woman who reminds him of a girl from his past. She is trying to
cross the line of the Reds (uhm, I think, it was months since I actually read the
beginning of the story), but no one will take her there due to the dangers involved.
The doctor decides to just say "to hell with it" and go with her to "the other side", a
very risky undertaking. I really like Vinnichenko's writings, he seems very fond of
painting not that very flattering portraits of human beings and what they stoop to
during certain circumstances.
I really liked this quote from На той бік:
Панна ж Ольга помалу й неначе зовсім спокійно відійшла від калюжі крови й стала біля
вікна, спиною до кашкета. Низьке віконце незатуленими шматочками освітлювало їй руки,
груди й підборіддя. В руках був ножик і шматочок червоної глиняної миски. Тісно
стиснувши уста, вона почала сильно, вперто терти лезом ножика по черепку. Хустку вона
так поклала на плечах і руках, щоб зразу ж, як треба буде, сховати під неї руки. Все
проробляла з таким виглядом, наче їй не раз уже доводилось гострити кишенькові ножики в
большевицьких страшних камурах-грандотелях.
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| tricoteuse Pentaglot Senior Member Norway littlang.blogspot.co Joined 6679 days ago 745 posts - 845 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Norwegian, EnglishC1, Russian, French Studies: Ukrainian, Bulgarian
| Message 20 of 58 23 June 2013 at 11:52pm | IP Logged |
BULGARIAN
Finished the Bulgarian grammar book! I wrote a review on Goodreads, so I won't repeat
everything I said there here. The review can be found
here.
Just some brief points:
- I'm confused by the renarrative mode and its forms.
- Past participles. Bleh.
I'm rather surprised by how well I remember things from the grammar book as I read.
Except for the word for "to smoke", which really doesn't want to stick in my head
(perhaps because for me, smoking is always kur- something), I see words in
Twilight that I recently saw in the grammar book all the time, and - I remember them!
I'm still going to make a little bit more of an effort and add conjunctions and adverbs
to ANKI, just to make sure.
Another thing that surprises me is how easily I can read Bulgarian - all things being
relative - in such a short amount of time. I can rather easily drop the English version
I have and just use the dictionary for a couple of words and that's it. Most of the
time I will check with the orgiginal once I've read half a page or a page to sort out
stuff that could have been unclear. I do wonder how much more difficult non-translated
or more advanced literature will be.
The only thing that's starting to bother me is the abudance of да. There are like 4 of
them in each sentence. The crazy amount of definite articles is also a bit startling,
and if I were ever to attempt to learn to write or speak Bulgarian myself I think those
would trip me up seriously. They just seem so superfluous!
UKRAINIAN
I finally finished Записки Кирпатого Мефістофеля (review
here). This is my third
fictional book read in Ukrainian, and I wish I had something a bit shorter to start
now, so that it won't take me a year to finish. But no, I'm going to start another 350+
pages book: Людина / Царівна (two books in one tome) by Ольга Кобилянська. I bought it
because I really thought the cover was pretty + I try to not read all male authors
cause that's boring.
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| prz_ Tetraglot Senior Member Poland last.fm/user/prz_rul Joined 4860 days ago 890 posts - 1190 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish
| Message 21 of 58 24 June 2013 at 2:54pm | IP Logged |
tricoteuse wrote:
- I'm confused by the renarrative mode and its forms. |
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Tryb nieświadka, you mean? :D
And how do you cope with the членуване?
Btw., I still have 2 parts of "Я, Богдан" by Загребельний on my bookshelf. Believe or not, but they costed me... 3,90 hryvnias.
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| Kartof Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5067 days ago 391 posts - 550 votes Speaks: English*, Bulgarian*, Spanish Studies: Danish
| Message 22 of 58 26 June 2013 at 5:32am | IP Logged |
prz_ wrote:
Крайно, някаква славянска душа. Даже и от Скандинавия :-о
Супраският кодекс... Боже мой! Помня, какви проблеми (и половина от групата ми също) имах със
старобългарски... КОШМАР! А ти ощте писал ли си магистърскатата работа си по тази тема? Ок, нямам по-вече
въпроси...
Български, това е вярно, е много интересен език, когато става дума за граматиката и за думите, но... (сега
Кристоф ще ме убие), страхувам се, че българският малко ми е дошъл до гуши. Няма да кажа за историите с
текущата лекторка ми, но просто виждам, че, за мен, България не е така интересна: всичко свързано с нея не е
така хубаво, за да се въз хищавам, но не така трагическо, за да се смея с нея.
Искрено, винаги бях за екс-ю и исках да следвам хрватски, но нямах щастие с набирането на факултета ми.
Ех...
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I wrote the below text as a reply to prz_ but also as practice reading for tricoteuse and a mini-lesson in some of
the idiosyncrasies of Bulgarian culture.
Не се безпокой, България си е трудна държава да се харесва, камули да се обича. Културата, хората, и
манталитетът си са балкански. България не е западна държава, тоест не е католическа или протестанска. Да
се разбере една култура която е изпитала 600 години мъка под Османската Империя и след това комунизма,
без органичен разтеж на демокрация и капитализма си е трудно. Хората живеят в насочената посока към
западна Европа, също както в пример на Русия и Османската Империя преди това. В чест на хората, те са
горди, силни, и неразделими, и ще Ви вземе дълго време да им преемите начина на мислене и на живот. Ако
физическите комфорти не Ви са достатъчни в България, след кратко време те ще се оправят. Манталитетът на
българите е неподвижим и ако не бях българин нямах да имам търпение с него, но се пак от там ми са
израстнали семейните и културните корени. Това е главната пречина че ме интересува България и е
разбираемо че ако хората или манталитетът са Ви противоположни, че Вие не бихте имали интерес в тях.
tricoteuse wrote:
BULGARIAN
Finished the Bulgarian grammar book! I wrote a review on Goodreads, so I won't repeat
everything I said there here. The review can be found
here.
Just some brief points:
- I'm confused by the renarrative mode and its forms.
- Past participles. Bleh.
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The renarrative mood isn't really vital. After reading about it several times, I still can't get it straight. The change
in meaning is slight and it's more of a point of grammarian's interest than anything else in my opinion.
Past participles aren't too bad, just remember to inflect for number and gender. If you have any more specific
questions, feel free to ask.
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| tricoteuse Pentaglot Senior Member Norway littlang.blogspot.co Joined 6679 days ago 745 posts - 845 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Norwegian, EnglishC1, Russian, French Studies: Ukrainian, Bulgarian
| Message 23 of 58 26 June 2013 at 3:28pm | IP Logged |
prz_ wrote:
Tryb nieświadka, you mean? :D |
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Yes, that one, but if Kartof says not to worry about it, I won't!
prz_ wrote:
And how do you cope with the членуване? |
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Wait, what? Членуване... >_> Are we talking about Sequence of Tense? You lost me!
Kartof: could you explain "камули"? Other than that, I think I understood your text
just fine :)
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BULGARIAN
I've been reading quite a lot of Twilight. I'm not sure if I should be proud or
embarassed. It's just so hard to stop, and I think this proves how crucial correct
reading material is. When you want to read for the sake of the story (yeah, the sappy
emo love story, I confess), the language doesn't really matter. I've read 12% by now.
The problem is, when I read something I enjoy reading, I don't feel like I'm working or
doing anything worth while, and I feel lazy and guilty. So I have to find something I
don't enjoy doing, and spend some time on that. I don't mind reading grammar books all
that much, but it does feel more "serious", so I'll start the second one tomorrow.
Further observations:
* Descriptions of space confuse me. Remember the scene where Bella almost gets squished
by a car? That was a tricky one.
* I sometimes don't catch negations, or mistake indefinite pronouns for negated
pronouns.
Oh! And I think I found a translation error.
Original:
Mike came to sit by me in English, and walked me to my next class, with Chess Club Eric
glaring at him all the while.
Translation:
Майк седна до мен по английски и ме изпроводи до следващият ми час заедно с Шахматиста
Ерик, който го гледаше накриво през цялото време.
The Bulgarian says that Erik and Mike are walking Bella to her class together, right?
But that's not the case.
Also, are terriers known for their loyalty in Bulgaria?
Mike, who was taking on the qualities of a golden retriever...
Майк, който приемаше качествата на териер...
Terriers are frenzied little things who can't stand still (the ADHD kid of the dog
kingdom), not the epitome of the meek, nice - and boring - family dog.
Also, the translator translates the English exclamation "Oh!" as "Оу!". Is this what
Bulgarian people say, or is the translator just really bad?
UKRAINIAN
I haven't started my next Ukrainian book yet, mainly because I don't want to have half
a million books on my "currently reading" list all the time. I never get to finish
anything, and I get a kick out of finishing books (I lead a very exciting life) so I
need to try to keep the number down.
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| prz_ Tetraglot Senior Member Poland last.fm/user/prz_rul Joined 4860 days ago 890 posts - 1190 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish
| Message 24 of 58 26 June 2013 at 6:00pm | IP Logged |
членуване
Kristof wrote:
Не се безпокой, България си е трудна държава да се харесва, камули да се обича. |
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Не е така трудна, ако има "българоджии" на моя факултет... И, както казах, ако става дума за парите и развитието, не е така лошо в България. Проблемът е само в мен.
tricoteuse wrote:
I sometimes don't catch negations |
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In Polish there is a different order of the words in negation, so for most of Polish ears "не ми харесва" sounds like "not I like it, but YOU like it" (in Polish the proper translation would be: "nie[/b podoba mi się")
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