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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4710 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3441 of 3959 22 November 2013 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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The reason it was a former name for the Netherlands is actually because there was a tribe
called the Batavii who lived on Dutch soil. If I am not mistaken, that was near the area of modern Nijmegen. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3442 of 3959 22 November 2013 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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Maybe I should read what Caesar and Tacitus have to say about those Batavians, but so far I have just read the article about them on Wikipedia. And the funny part here is when the author discuss whether it really was possible to cross a river in full armour on a horse, as Tacitus claims the Batavian mercenaries did, or whether they used some kind of 'buoyancy* device'. Maybe a job for the Mythbusters?
* NB: 4 vowels in a row in an English word - that's rare! And then I also checked the Dutch version of "Hindia Belanda": it is "Nederlands-Indië" (the dash here is somewhat surprising). Speaking about Dutch: I have prolonged my loan of Colloquial Dutch from our local library with one month. I know most of the words, but the grammatical and idiomatic comments in between were quite interesting the first time I went through the book, and I may still pick up a few goodies. Edited by Iversen on 22 November 2013 at 2:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4710 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3443 of 3959 22 November 2013 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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The dash is used a bit weirdly in Dutch, and the rules for its use constantly change. I
don't even know whether it's correct or not - I might have called it Nederlands Indië by accident, but it may be a proper name. edit: the Taalunie tells me that the dash is used here because it is a geographical name. Edited by tarvos on 22 November 2013 at 3:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3444 of 3959 25 November 2013 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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DU: Kan de Taalunie misschien ook vertellen waarom het heet de "Nederlandse Antillen" zonder koppelteken? Ik denk dat 't het iets met taalgeschiedenis te doen...
I was at home the whole weekend, and this gave me ample time to get through a fair number of languages and techniques. I won't mention it all, but the thread about 'deep' topics reminded me eerily about some of the texts I use for intentsive study. For instance I have just finished a long text in Russian about the history of Babylon - and now I have switched to another about Babylonian architecture so now I probably know the relevant vocabulary for discussing antique warfare and townplanning 3000 years ago, and in case I get tired of that subject I might also have a thing or two to say about the Snowball Earth Hypothesis after having read texts about the theme in Russian, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian and German. In Indonesian I'm currently reading about museum trains, and I have recently read about Harry Potter and Tolkien in Icelandic (and of course I'm still regularly studying excerpts from Harry P in Irish and Latin). I did of course also watch TV, but here the most weird choice was the 5. part of a series on History Channel about the Croat Kings - in Croatian, which I haven't studied. But with subtitles it goes surprisingly well. Edited by Iversen on 25 November 2013 at 3:59pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4710 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3445 of 3959 25 November 2013 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | ||
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Technically that is supposed to be with a dash - except that it represents an
exception. From the site: Een tweedelig samengestelde aardrijkskundige naam en zijn afleidingen schrijven we met een koppelteken. Aarle-Rixtel Knokke-Heist Deze regel geldt ook voor aardrijkskundige namen met als linkerdeel* een woord als Noord, Zuid, West, Oost, Centraal, Hoog, Laag, Boven, Beneden, Midden, Nieuw, Nederlands, Belgisch, Vlaams, Frans, Latijns, Afro, Indo. Zuid-Holland Midden-Amerika Nieuw-Zeeland Vlaams-Brabant Frans-Polynesië We behouden het koppelteken in de afleiding* van de samengestelde vorm. Zuid-Hollands Nieuw-Zeelander Vlaams-Brabantse Uitheemse samengestelde aardrijkskundige namen die met een spatie geschreven worden, krijgen geen koppelteken, ook niet in de afgeleide vormen en in samenstellingen. New York - New Yorker - New Yorkse - een New Yorkreis Sri Lanka - Sri Lankaan - Sri Lankaans - een Sri Lankareis → hoofdletter voor plaatsnamen, namen van volkeren, namen van talen: 16.3 It doesn't offer an explanation. My guess is that it is either an exception, or that the "Antilles" are somehow considered "uitheems" (foreign) and therefore do not count. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3446 of 3959 26 November 2013 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | ||
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I can't quite see the logic in defining a juridical entity with "Nederlandse" in its name as more foreign than for instance "Midden-America", which never has been under Dutch rule. On the other hand I'm always happy when I can recall an exception to a rule.
In this case I was aided by the fact that the constitutional status of the five-and-a-half or so Dutch Caribbean islands has been changed a number of times, last time (so far) in 2010, where Curaçao followed in the footsteps of Aruba (while still remaining within the EU, contrary to Greenland and the Faroe Islands), whereas the 'Caribische openbare lichamen' Bonaire, Sint Eustatius (Statia) and Saba became ordinary municipalities of the Netherlands at the same level as any other Dutch town, though different insofar they aren't part of any Dutch province. Well, it was always difficult to understand why the ABC-eilanden (with a dash) suddenly became the A...BC islands. Now they have instead become the A .... (B) ..... C - eilanden, which is equally weird for three rather small islands lying so close together far from the former colonial power. But not weirder than the French insistance that all their colonies are part of France at exactly the same level as Val-d'Oise (with a trait d'union) or Territoire de Belfort (with or without, à votre gré, but please no article) or Calvados (definitely dash-less). Or the string of tiny island nations that once were British colonies (leaving a few that refused to be liberated). Edited by Iversen on 26 November 2013 at 1:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4710 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3447 of 3959 26 November 2013 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | ||
I think the criterion is that the word is etymologically Dutch, not juridically. Other than that I agree of course. I hope this was useful to you because I myself did not even know about this rule, and I can assure you that many Dutch people are even less likely to know it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3448 of 3959 26 November 2013 at 9:32pm | IP Logged | ||
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SW: Svenska spökar fortfarande i kulissen. Igår gjorde jag först en, sedan en mera och sedan en tredje ordräkning baserat på de samma tre ordböckerna som jag använde i 2009. Den minsta är en striped Gyldendal med 16.000 ord (i 2009 sa jag 17400), och jag kände 67% av dem, med 5% 'gissa-bara' (70% 2009). Det lät ju inte så konstigt. Den mellersta är min tyska <-> svenska Langenscheidt, och med den fick jag 72% kännte (plus 4% att gissa), jämfört med 67% i 2009 - men problemet är att jag nu uppskattar att det fanns 34.000 ord totalt mot 29.000 i 2009. Var kom de ifrån? På baksidan står det bara att det finns 85.000 ord och fraser i detta värk (när båda hälften slås ihop). Och till slut gjorde jag en uppskattning utifrån min stora feta Gyldendal og nådde 35.000 kända ord, men det utgör bara 48% av de beräknade 72.000 ord i boken. Under 2009 nådde jag siffran 31.000 kända ord (36%) av - förbered er för en chock - 85.900 ord. Vart tog de 13.900 ord vägen? Den enda logiska förklaringen är att den här gången hoppade jag över kombinationer av ord samt egennamn, och det gjorde jag måhända inte i 2009. Men just nu er jag förvirrad... "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world" (Yeats)
Edited by Iversen on 26 November 2013 at 9:41pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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