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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3041 of 3959 19 September 2012 at 12:14am | IP Logged |
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I have spent most of the evening writing a dozen or so travel articles for the new homepage of my travel club, and because they are in Danish this hasn't contributed to my language learning - but maybe somebody can use them as extensive reading materials.
But not all my time today was lost on Danish. I have also reread some of the foreign texts which I long ago have illustrated in my language series of paintings. I intend to do the second video about the 'Romance' (and Latin+Greek+Russian) paintings soon, but then I'll probably stop. The original plan for the series encompassed most of my paintings, but the viewer numbers at Youtube aren't so high that it is worth the effort to publish more videos about my paintings. In the bus back home from my job I still read my old old light blue TY Afrikaans textbook. As usual I find the pseudo narrative style irritating - language learning doesn't become more interesting just because you let some obnoxious fictive upper-class persons visit clothes shops, eat in restaurants with old friends and give their staff curt orders. But it is an easy format for reading in a crowded place. Edited by Iversen on 19 September 2012 at 3:12pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3042 of 3959 20 September 2012 at 6:28pm | IP Logged |
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I made a new video yesterday about paintings illustrating the Romance languages and a few more, so evidently I also spent time studying some of the texts. Against all expectations I found a likely source for the 'Portuguese' painting, which I knew was based on a poem named "Alcool" - the´inebriated poet turned out to be Mário de Sá-Carneiro. But the autor of the Occitan poem "Estelum" is still a mystery - although I have had the pleasure of reading some old and new texts in that language.
PO: O autor do poema "Alcool" é Mário de Sá-Carneiro: Guilhotinas, pelouros e castelos bla-bla-bla Que droga foi a que me inoculei? Ópio d'inferno em vez de paraíso?... Que sortilégio a mim próprio lancei? Como é que em dor genial eu me eterizo? Ne ópio dem morfina. O que me ardeu Foi alcool mais raro e penetrante: bla-bla-bla FR: Par contre, je n'ai pas pu identifier aucun poète occitane qui ait écrit un poème intitulé "Estelum" - 'étoiles'. J'ai une vague idée que ce soit quelqu'un aux alentours de Mistral, peut-être le maître lui-même, mais là la chasse finit sans résultat. Or j'ai lu pas mal de textes dans l'occitan moderne plus quelques textes qui expliquent sa situation ici maintenant, où le français est près de l'avoir égorgée complètement - sauf chez les rares vieillards qui sachent encore parler la langue des troubadours. LAT: Pars tractati ex anno 960 ad temporibus hodiernibus superavit quae in linguae mixtae latina ac occitana facta est: "De ista hora in antea non DECEBRÀ Ermengaus filius Eldiarda Froterio episcopo filio Girberga NE Raimundo filio Bernardo vicecomite de castello de Cornone...". Etiam ex 1000-1030 poema in parte exstat de philosophi Boetii, nomine "Boecis": Cum jaz Boecis e pena, charceraz, Plan se sos dols e sos menuz pecaz, D’una donzella fo laïnz visitaz: Filla·s al rei qui a granz poestaz bla bla bla . Please notice the sign · which normally separates pairs of l's in Catalan - but here it is used as an apostrophe. Today I have for the first time in several months done some active listening exercises in Irish, using abair.ie - it was actually Serpent who reminded me of my own 'discovery' from earlier this year. The idea is that you listen very attentively to very short snippets of text and try to write down in some kind of phonetic writing exactly what you hear - and not what you expected the speaker to say. The problem is that you need absolute silence around you and a fair amount of concentration, and these things are hard to get in a flat in a highrise house. The text I used was the beginning of a project report from county Mayo, where children were allowed to write their own books in Irish and get them published. The good thing about this text is that it is bilingual in Irish and English - otherwise I would have had to use Google Translate which isn't quite reliable, especially not with a 'small' language as Irish where there aren't enough parallel texts (but the Latin translator is worse!). However I use my own hyperliteral translation below. I also stubbornly persist in using my own homebrewed sound writing system, even though it will be almost useless for most readers. But IPA doesn't 'speak' to me. · indicates a long sound, boldface means an accent, æ and å are Danish signs (IPA ɛ and ɔ), ŏ is an open o as in 'porridge' (I have earlier used ɔ as I was taught while studying French, but somehow ɔ became the sign for å in IPA),ö is the schwa sound (easier to write on my keyboard than ə), and finally α and χ are Greek letters (open a and a deep guttural 'ch' sound) shkrjå·ljå· Scríobh leabhar 'write book' ishkjæ·m æ·ntαχ(h)i i sjŏ· Is scéim iontach í seo, Is scheme wonderful she this ŏröi ()gfŏröshn() gæ·ligö urraithe ag Foras na Gaelige supported by Institution of Gaelic ö gŏlö hanödŏdjahash mwui·ŏ i gcomhar le hIonad Oideachais Mhaigh Eo, in cooperation with center education's (of) Mayo hashlα·nö uŏ·ri Caisleán a'Barraigh Castlebar ö hŏ·gön dæshdö fŏ·jsti a thugann deis do pháisti which gives opportunity for children ægŏjd lju·i hæ·n a gcuide leabhair féin their books own/self öshkri·u ösh gæ·jligö a scríobh as Gaeilge. to write in Gaelic Each item above is as about long as it should be for this kind of activity. In the speech synthethizer abair you can just put full stops, then the rendering is split in nice small packets. In others you may have to quote each stump separately. Edited by Iversen on 20 September 2012 at 7:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3043 of 3959 24 September 2012 at 12:32pm | IP Logged |
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LAT: Hodie mane horam 7.49 ricevis librum "Harrius Potter Et Camera Secretorum", sed nondum librum Harrii unum de lapide philosophorum in lingvae hibernicae legit - tempus fugebat cum labore et alibus proiectis. Ego taeniovideones de tabulis meis feci - sed non omnium ut ab initio propositum meum fuit - et postea peregrinationes ad paginam novam consociationis peregrinatorium transtuli.
(Time flies by ... I have been busy transferring my travelogues from the old homepage of my travel club to the new one, and before that I spent time making videos about my paintings. I haven't had time to tacle my Harry P I in Irish yet, and now I have also received Harry P II in Latin with a real postman ringing my doorbell at 7.49 this morning. No. III in Greek has been spotted at Amazon, but at an elevated price) SCO: Ah hae likewys ordered Lewis Carrol's "Ailice's Àventurs in Wunnerland" in Scots. Quote frae Amazon: "The translator haes uised tradeetional spellins the likes o wis set doun bi Burns, Scott, Slater an many ither, tho wantin the "apologetic apostrophes" ye aft see in thae beuks. This is gaes alang wi maist writins in Scots fae the aichteenth century on, an reads fine tae modren Scots spaekers bred up tae sic tradeetions". THe beuk shall come aboot Wadensday. EDIT 25/9: The beuk came the day and tis a wee little thing Edited by Iversen on 25 September 2012 at 11:10am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3044 of 3959 27 September 2012 at 2:04am | IP Logged |
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SCO: Ah read the fairst pairt o Ailice in the bus back hame frae me job the day, and as ah hae written it isnae fickle tae unnerstaund, whit makes it a braw thingum fair readin in a plaice whare you cannae use yer dictioner. Afore ah read the teache yerself Afrikaans, whit has its ain inbuilt leets o wirds an expressions.
ENG: Besides I have been reading some texts about Old English because of the threads about Old English and its relations to Icelandic resp. to the Celtic languages. And here I hit upon a number of original texts Old English beyond the famous Beowulf, including one that began like this: Welund him be wurman (Weland himself, by means of worms (swords?)) wræces cunnade (experienced agony) anhydig eorlthe (strong-minded) nobleearfoþa dreag (endured troubles) hæfde him to gesiþþe (he had for his companions) sorge and longaþ (sorrow and longing) wintercealde wræce (winter-bitter wrack) wean oft onfond (he often found misery) This definitely rang a bell because the same person is the hero of a section of the Sæmundar-Edda, namely the socalled Völundarkviða from Sæmund's Edda, which has the same story with even more grim details. IC:Völundr og tveir bræður hans voru synir Finnarkonungs, og fundu þeir og bjuggu með þremur valkyrjur. En valkyrjurna og bræðurna fóru eftir 9 ár, og Volund sat einn í Ulfdölum og gjerði hringar og margt annað. Svíþjóð-konunginn Niðuðr sendi þa menn út til að stela öllu, og þeir skera einnig sinar Volunds í knéfótum svo að hann gat ekki undan. Restin af sögun lýsir hefnd Völunds. Hann drap konungins tvo syni og gerði skeljarna þeirra til drykkbollar fyrir konunginum, nauðgaði og frjóvgaði dóttur konungins Bödvild og gerði sér fjederham svo hann gæti flogið í burtu. En fyrst náði hann að fá spjall við konunginum: Níðuður kvað: Seg þú mér það, Völundur, vísi álfa, af heilum hvað varð húnum mínum. (tell me, wise elf, whatever happened to my brave boys) Völundur kvað: (...) Gakk þú til smiðju þeirrar er þú gerðir, þar finnur þú belgi blóði stokkna; sneið eg af höfuð húna þinna og und fen fjöturs fætur um lagðag. (go to the smithy which you set up for me and you'll find the bloody hides. I cut off the heads of your sons, laid the bodies down under the clay of the fireplace) En þær skálar, er und skörum vóru, sveip eg utan silfri, senda eg Níðaði; en úr augum jarknasteina senda eg kunnigri kvon Níðaðar, en úr tönnum tveggja þeirra sló eg brjóstkringlur, senda eg Böðvildi. (and the sculls which were cut off I enveloped in silver and sent to Nidudr, and the eyes as jewels I sent to the cunning wife of the king, and of the teeth of those two I forged necklaces (and) sent them to Bödvild) (...) Nú gengur Böðvildur barni aukin, einkadóttir ykkur beggja. (now Bödvild walks 'increased with' a child (=pregnant), the only daughter of you two).. And then Vølund flew away on his artificial wings and nobody ever saw him again... apart from his appearence in a play by Adam Oehlenschläger, Vaulundurs Saga, which was set to music by Fini Henriques. Edited by Iversen on 27 September 2012 at 9:58am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3045 of 3959 27 September 2012 at 5:31pm | IP Logged |
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AF: Ek was gereed om te huis toe te gaan van my werk, as dit begin erg swaar te reën. So nou sit ek en luister na potgooie op Afrikaans vanaf RSG, "Radio Sonder Grense". Die konkreete program word genoem Tjailatyd ("babble time"), en ek luister na 'n gesprek van 17/9 2012 oor die internet, wat natuurlik 'n baie relevante tema. Er is onder andere gepraat oor "memes", wat 'aansteeklik' stukke van denkgoedere is wat op weerlig spoed versprei deur die Internet.
The rain began to pour down just when I was ready to go home. So instead I have been listening to podcasts from RSG 'Radio without border' from South Africa. They have a fair amount of those podcasts, and the one I have listen to is a conversation about the internet, where the two participants discuss the internet and the notion of "memes". These are contagious expressions and themes and celebs (!) etc. which spread like a prairie fire through the internet, and then suddenly they are gone again. And that's often the most positive thing you can say about them. But for some reason the meme meme has also lead to the creation of factories and dumps for badly drawn cartoons and gross jokes written on 'cards' with ugly human faces. This is slightly more entertaining than celebrity gossip (although there is some overlap), but it does look like a temporary phenomenon which we just have live with until it stops. Like the rain. Edited by Iversen on 27 September 2012 at 5:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4847 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 3046 of 3959 27 September 2012 at 8:30pm | IP Logged |
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How fascinating that you bring up Old English and Old Norse literature! That's just what I am dealing with at the moment. Couldn't understand much of the OE text without your translation, but the ON one was quite comprehensible. Thanks for posting that! It encourages me in continuing my studies of Old Germanic languages.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4831 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 3047 of 3959 27 September 2012 at 10:43pm | IP Logged |
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Someone on here had reminded me that there are quite a few parallel texts commercially published, and I looked on both Abebooks.co.uk and amazon.co.uk, and, while there was not all that much, and not much of interest to me, but there were some Old-English-English texts, including Beowulf.
The same person (I think) also mentioned the fairly numerous parallel texts produced by the Reclam publisher in Germany. I looked on their web site, and there was quite a reasonable number. Unfortunately, most were a bit too obscure for me, but for example, anyone who wanted Latin-German (and probably Classical Greek-German) would probably be happy, and I think there was some Old English(-probably with German). They were quite cheap as well, but I don't know about the postage. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3048 of 3959 28 September 2012 at 1:30pm | IP Logged |
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The only problem is that the translations sometimes are so free that you spend as much time on comparing original and translation (with mixed results) as you would have done on looking words and endings up yourself. I once made my own translation of Völuspá, using the ones I could find but essentially rewriting it from scratch. And for this message I also made my own translation of the relevant parts of the da. Völundarkviδa. I have been tempted to do the same with Beowulf, but my OE isn't quite good enough so I had to use the one from the internet as I found it. Maybe it also plays a role that the Beowulf text is several hundred years older than the Eddas of Snorri and Sæmundur, and that the Anglosaxon writing tradition in the meantime was interrupted by the Norman invasion. Who knows what Anglosaxon would have looked like around 1200 without that crucial event? Edited by Iversen on 28 September 2012 at 1:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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