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Urdu - lack of progress | ||
Tags: Urdu | Loss of confidence | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Boomerang3378 Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4700 days ago 34 posts - 72 votes  Speaks: English*, Urdu Studies: Italian, Finnish | Message 17 of 52 03 October 2012 at 5:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Here we see the same: "kaThaa banaa kar sar par uThaa kar" (I´m just writing out the part specifically that I don´t understand).
First of all in this sentence... The word is not "kathaa" but "gathaa" as that is a "Gaaf + tay + hay + alif" ... "gatha" means "bundle". In this sentence it means "bundle of wood" or "lakrioan ka gatha"..."a bundle of wood" So lets analyze it. You should already know by now how "kar" is being used in this sentence. The verb "to make" is "banana"... "to make a bundle" = "gatha banana"..."gatha bana kar" = "to make a bundle and"... The verb "to carry" is "Uthana" ... "utha kar" = "to carry and..." "Sar par utha kar" = "to carry on the head and..." "Gatha bana kar sar par utha kar" = "Make a bundle, carry it on the head and..." Also note how the stem of the verbs "banana" and "uthana" are being used as "bana" and "utha" respectively because of the presence of "kar" 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| whitelily Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5632 days ago 42 posts - 47 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Arabic (classical), Urdu | Message 18 of 52 04 October 2012 at 1:33am | IP Logged | |||||
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Wow, those post were really, really great in helping me increase my understanding. It´s very clear now, and I´m
very happy about that seeing that I´ve seen this being used a lot of times (i.e. "ja kar" and the like) without being able to understand how it works. Thanks a bunch! You are spot on about what you said about learning from native Urdu speakers. Yes, as far as I could tell the book (e-book) is written by a native Urdu speaker, but I think I will go looking for another book in Urdu. I´ve bought some books in Urdu for children with short stories that seem to be of good quality (and a more advanced one for later about Aurangzeb ), and so I´ll try those once I´ve built up my vocab and improved my grammar through reading some more texts with FLTR (program). When and if you have the time, do you have a chance to comment on another sentence? (I feel guilty already for taking so much of your time and energy, so please do not feel like you have to answer my question!) ان کی نیند اچاٹ ہونے کی حقیقی وجہ در اصل تیز چیختی ہوئی گونج تھی جو کے ان کے بھانج ہیری کے کمرے میں موجود اس کی مادہ الّو کے حلق سے برآمد ہوئی تھی So, as far as I can understand from this sentence, in reality, the true reason that his sleep was ruined was due to loud screaming (…?) which stemmed from (the throat of) an owl in his nephew Harry´s room (i.e. the owl´s hooting). So, what I´m wondering is whether the "chikhti hui" here indicates that an action (screaming) happens while the next action took place (gonj thi)? I´ve been trying for a long time to comprehend the "chikhti hui gonj thi". I tried to look up immediate past, and an example was given ("Baarish hui hai; sarah giilii hai), but that seemed to be somewhat different. Then I looked up verbal adjectives, where there was an example of perfective participles of stative verbs (verbs that show a continuing state). "Vuh leeTaa hua parh raha thaa" ( = "He was reading (while) lying down"). I was thinking that if this sentence could be ended with only "thaa" ("He was reading (while) he lied down."), then it would somewhat resemble the sentence in question? (Appologies if I have copied the sentence wrongly - sometimes I find the nastaliiq script (which the original text is written in) difficult.) Edit: just saw a typo Edited by whitelily on 04 October 2012 at 10:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Boomerang3378 Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4700 days ago 34 posts - 72 votes Speaks: English*, Urdu Studies: Italian, Finnish | Message 19 of 52 04 October 2012 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
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So, as far as I can understand from this sentence, in reality, the true reason that his sleep was ruined was due to loud screaming (…?) which stemmed from (the throat of) an owl in his nephew Harry´s room (i.e. the owl´s hooting). So, what I´m wondering is whether the "chikhti hui" here indicates that an action (screaming) happens while the next action took place (gonj thi)? I´ve been trying for a long time to comprehend the "chikhti hui gonj thi"
"In ki neendh achaat honay ki haqeeqi waja darasul teez chihkti hui goonj thi jo k in kay bhanj harry kay kamray mein mohjuud is ki mada uluu kay halq say baramid hui thi" "In ki neendh" = Their sleep "achaat" = "disturbed" "haqeeqi" = "truth/true" "darasul" = "actually" "teez" = "fast/loud/sharp/clever" "goonj" = "echo" "chiikhna" = "to scream/to screech" "chiikti hui goonj" = "an echoing screech" "an echo" = "goonj" "a screech" = "chiikh" "an echo (ing) screech" = "chiikhti (hui) goonj" ... "chiikhti" represents a continuous action. "Mada Uluu" = "female owl" "halq" = "throat" "baramad" = "originate/found" "hui thi" = "the feminine ending is used as we are talking about an echoing screech (chiikti hui goonj) which is feminine" You are pairing up the words incorrectly. You are pairing up "chikti hui" and "goonj thi". "Chiikti hui goonj" is one word/epression and "thi" is that expression's female ending. The above sentence is translated as... "The true reason that their (Harry's Aunt and Uncle) sleep was disturbed was actually due to a loud echoing screech which originated from the throat of [their nephew] Harry's owl which was present in his room." "Vuh leeTaa hua parh raha thaa" ( = "He was reading (while) lying down"). I was thinking that if this sentence could be ended with only "thaa" ("He was reading (while) he lied down."),then it would somewhat resemble the sentence in question? "Woh leata hua parh raha tha" (He was lying down while he read) or (He was reading while he lay down) Notice that in your sentence you have used "lied down". This is wrong because the past tense of the word "lie" is "lay" not "lied"... The past tense of "lie" is "lied" where "lie" means "against the turth" The above sentence can also end with "thi" if we want to talk about a woman/girl. "Woh leati hui parh rahi thi" (She was reading while she lay down) When and if you have the time, do you have a chance to comment on another sentence? (I feel guilty already for taking so much of your time and energy, so please do not feel like you have to answer my question!) No need to feel guilty about anything. Its my passion to learn and teach languages. So I'll continue helping you the best I can till you reach a good level in Urdu. If you didn't understand something from any of the explanations above please feel free to ask. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 strickvl Bilingual Tetraglot Pro Member Jordan alexstrick.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4697 days ago 27 posts - 41 votes Speaks: English*, Dutch*, Arabic (Written), Arabic (Levantine) Studies: Persian, Pashto, Dari Personal Language Map | Message 20 of 52 04 October 2012 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks for this discussion. It has been interesting to follow, if your Urdu levels seem a bit ahead of where I am at
the moment. I also started learning a few months ago. I have been using the Yale textbook "Let's Study Urdu", which seems really thorough, and gets you through a fair set of vocab during the course. I'd recommend it. Otherwise, vocab lists depend a bit on what you plan on reading. If you PM me your email address I can dropbox a set of PDFs to you which is all the words that were found in a survey of Urdu newspapers in the early 1970s. It's as close to a frequency dictionary of Urdu as we have. I've been considering slowly adding these to an Anki library. I'd be happy to share that when I'm done. I bought a number of children's books while I was in Karachi, and while I read in them from time to time, I find the language too difficult for the moment, and I'm also worried that (while reading aloud) I'll be mispronouncing the words because they are (of course) unvocalised. Not really sure how to get round that. For listening, there are more options. The BBC Urdu service's FM bulletin (http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/multimedia/2011/10/000000_fm_bull etin.shtml for today's) is worth taking 10 minutes out of every day just to absorb things that way. Otherwise, am open to new suggestions. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| whitelily Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5632 days ago 42 posts - 47 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Arabic (classical), Urdu | Message 21 of 52 04 October 2012 at 9:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
That´s very kind of you! Oh, I paired it up wrongly. Sometimes Urdu can be confusing in terms of what goes with what, but I think after having seen your explanation it will be easier to recognise the same type of expression (albeit different words, of course), when reading other texts. Once again; thank you!
Ah, I will definitively check out the Yale book when I get the chance. Thank you for recommending it. Yes, I´d very much like to receive the pdfs. Thank you for sharing your resources with me. BBC radio? Why didn´t I think of that. I´ve previously only checked out their written articles. Yes, it´s frustrating that even childrens´books seem to have such a high level of language, with lots of difficult words (sort of the opposite of a lot of Western books). It´s due to the very same reason I´ll keep on working a bit more on grammar and vocab before tackling them. I have carefully started to read one, but only in tiny doses due to the amount of new vocab. Btw: have you tried reading texts online in FLTR? It´s a very quick way to look up words and add them as you go. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| strickvl Bilingual Tetraglot Pro Member Jordan alexstrick.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4697 days ago 27 posts - 41 votes Speaks: English*, Dutch*, Arabic (Written), Arabic (Levantine) Studies: Persian, Pashto, Dari Personal Language Map | Message 22 of 52 05 October 2012 at 7:50am | IP Logged | |||||
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Ah! I had forgotten about FLTR. I had been using LWT, but FLTR (which I see I already have installed) is much easier.
Don't suppose you have a screen shot (or paste in here) for the Urdu language settings? And the Arabic settings? Just curious as to whether you've managed to hook up the Google Translate dictionary into it... Would really appreciate it. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| whitelily Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5632 days ago 42 posts - 47 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Arabic (classical), Urdu | Message 23 of 52 05 October 2012 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
I´ve now posted the settings in that other thread. (Only for Urdu though, as I haven´t tried it with Arabic yet.) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| strickvl Bilingual Tetraglot Pro Member Jordan alexstrick.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4697 days ago 27 posts - 41 votes Speaks: English*, Dutch*, Arabic (Written), Arabic (Levantine) Studies: Persian, Pashto, Dari Personal Language Map | Message 24 of 52 05 October 2012 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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On Urdu children's books, I just discovered a wonderful set:
http://mqup.mcgill.ca/book.php?bookid=1930 and http://mqup.mcgill.ca/book.php?bookid=1931 They are supposed to come with tape and CDs, but the McGill website is infuriatingly difficult to navigate. I have these two (and there are two more books ("stories and poems") at a slightly more advanced level. I'll be working my way through those. I'd suggest you get hold of them. Alex 1 person has voted this message useful |
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