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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5841 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes  1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 1497 of 3959 18 November 2009 at 9:31am | IP Logged | ||
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Since yesterday I have a nice language-exchange contact on You Tube with a 17-year-old Danish girl (speaking English and German) who wants to learn Dutch and would like to become a polyglot. I asked her to write her comments in Danish and I give my replies in Dutch and with easier topics I write bilingually Danish/Dutch. This way she has got an impression of my Danish and she was very surprised when I told her that I have been studying this new language for only 4 weeks. She is the first female person who has contact with me on my You Tube channel. So yesterday I wrote quite a lot of Danish, using my dictionary of course.
Fasulye 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6697 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1498 of 3959 18 November 2009 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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Splendid - in that way you both learn something. And we get one more female polyglot here in Denmark.
Btw there is a good introduction to Danish grammar in the Danish Wikipedia. The rules for Word order in Danish are described with a reference to a Danish linguist Diderichsen, who invented description based on fields. Basically the order in Danish main sentences is SVO (subject, verb, objects etc): Jeg spiser smørrebrød However if something else - typically and adverb - occupies the initial position, then the subject is crowded out and moves to the position after the finite verb: Sommetider spiser jeg smørrebrød <--- notice the inversion The same two sentences, but with a compound perfect (where the finite finite verb is the auxiliary 'har'): Jeg har spist smørrebrød Sommetider har jeg spist smørrebrød <--- notice the inversion In subordinate phrases the rules are different: completive phrases: Det sjove er at jeg spiser smørrebrød Det sjove er at jeg sommetider spiser smørrebrød <--- NB no inversion Det sjove er at jeg har spist smørrebrød Det sjove er at jeg sommetider har spist smørrebrød <--- NB no inversion relative phrases: .. det smørrebrød som jeg spiser .. .. det smørrebrød som jeg sommetider spiser .. <--- NB no inversion Questions have normally inversion - but from the position of the adverbial it seems that it here is the verb that is moved to the front of the sentence, and not the subject that is moved to the right: Spiser jeg smørrebrød? Spiser jeg sommetider smørrebrød? Har jeg spist smørrebrød? Har jeg sommetider spist smørrebrød? But "sommetider" is not the only kind of adverbial. Let's try a prepositional phrase: Jeg spiser smørrebrød i dag I dag spiser jeg smørrebrød <--- inversion Det sjove er at jeg spiser smørrebrød i dag OR Det sjove er at jeg i dag spiser smørrebrød <--- no inversion Det sjove er at jeg har spist smørrebrød i dag OR Det sjove er at jeg i dag har spist smørrebrød <--- no inversion Notice that 'i dag' is more mobile than 'sommetider', which however doesn't alter the basic rule: inversion in main phrases if you put something in the first 'box' in the sentence, no inversion in subordinate phrases. And this is of course a system that is quite different from the one in High German. There is a weird twist to this thing about SVO: "Dansk (og de andre nordiske sprog og tysk er egentlig et VSO-sprog. Engelsk og de romanske sprog har næsten altid VSO (selv om engelsk har rester af OSV). " How can any sane person claim that Danish 'really' is a VSO language, when you only see this word order in main phrases with an adverbial at the first position? I have read the answer somewhere, but the explanation was so complicated and contrived that I have forgotten all about it. You have to go back to Old Norse to find 'clean' VSO sentences (quotes from Völuspá): Fleygði Óðinn og í fólk um skaut .... Sá hún valkyrjur vítt um komnar, ... And here you also find the order OVS (where the object has 'pushed out' the S from the first position, just as the adverbials above did): Sal sá hún standa .... But instead of objects you also find subject- and object predicates: Ein sat hún úti þá er inn aldni kom yggjungur ása ... In short, I find all this talk about basic word orders rather odd, and it seems particularly silly when the proposed basic worder of a language has been stonedead for centuries. If anybody has a good defense for this typology, then please enlighten me. Edited by Iversen on 18 November 2009 at 10:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5841 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 1499 of 3959 18 November 2009 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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DK: Det er mange interessant! Jeg kender allerede lidt / noget reglen pa inversion pa dansk. Det er lignende hvor pa tysk og nederlansk, synes jeg. Fasulye
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| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5918 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 1500 of 3959 18 November 2009 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | ||
When I read the excellent article you linked to at the top, I was surprised that behaviorism had ever played much of a role in education. Behaviorism is intriguing, but problematic when applied to human learning methods because it discounts things like individual temperaments and unexpressed thoughts to focus only on actions that can be outwardly observed. Behaviorism ultimately says that humans are just very curious, and that curiosity about various subjects or stimuli is our only motive for doing anything, never mind that curiosity is something which can't actually be outwardly observed. It's also funny that many who actually learn languages know that, like you wrote, we can and do use many techniques to learn languages or other subjects, but the research rarely mentions this. I'll definitely have to track down the article about shopaholics and compulsive gamblers having similar brain activity to that of amphetamine addicts since I remember reading an article in English that claimed something similar but the English article was so short there was no explanation as to why this might be. Edited by mick33 on 18 November 2009 at 8:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5841 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 1501 of 3959 18 November 2009 at 9:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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NL: Iversen, zijn er specifieke Deense astronomie tijdschriften? Hoe heten die? Als ik in 2011 in Köbenhavn zal zijn, dan wil ik me graag zo'n tijdschrift kopen. Dat andere algemene tijdschrift heet dus Videnskabens Verden. Goed om te weten voor mij. Videnskabens Verden = Wetenschapswereld? Maar misschien kun je mij nog wat informatie geven, het is nu nog veel te vroeg, maar ik ben nu al nieuwsgierig.
Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 18 November 2009 at 9:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6697 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1502 of 3959 18 November 2009 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hier zijn een aantal websites van Deense astronomisch tijdschriften:
www.tycho.dk/astronomi: tijdschrift van de Tycho Brahe Planetarium www.astronomibladet.dk: tijdschrift van sterrenkunde www.rumfart.dk: tijdschrift van ruimtevaart (met focus op de Deense bijdrage) www.kvant.dk: Kvant - tidsskrift van natuurkunde en sterrenkunde Link to the article about shopaholics and gamblers in "Lifandi Visindi" (in Icelandic, - written by Gorm Palmgren) Edited by Iversen on 18 November 2009 at 10:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5841 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 1503 of 3959 19 November 2009 at 9:34am | IP Logged | ||
Bedankt, voor mij zullen vooral interessant zijn "Astronomiebladet" en "Kvant", het lijkt me leuk om van tijd tot tijd wat op "Astronomibladet" online te lezen, maar eerst wil ik nog wat meer Deense woordenschat leren. Wat zijn de prijzen (~ ongeveer) van zo'n astronomietijdschrift ongerekend in EUR and ik wil ook graag weten wat zo'n Gyldendahl - woordenboek kost. Alleen, dat ik zo ongeveer een idee krijg, want ik weet al dat bijna alles in dit land duurder is dan hier. De tijdschriften heb ik me genoteerd, als ik in Köbenhavn kom, dan zal ik daar zeker niet weggaan, zonder mij zoiets te kopen. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 19 November 2009 at 9:52am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6697 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1504 of 3959 19 November 2009 at 10:21am | IP Logged | ||
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Ik weet niet wat de bovengenoemde tijdschriften kosten, maar Illustreret Videnskab kost 8-9 euro in kiosken - zie ook het menu "Universum" in 't site van dit laatste tijdschrift - het heeft onlangs geopend zijn archief van 6000 artikelen.
Edited by Iversen on 20 November 2009 at 1:32am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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