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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6696 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3745 of 3959 14 November 2014 at 11:09am | IP Logged | ||
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IT: Ho aggiunto il censimento mancante del mio vocabolario Italiano. In realtà non riuscii a trovare i miei appunti, e perciò ho contato cinque nuove pagine nel mio Garzanti monolingue. Su 2 dei 5 pagini ci sono elenchi della terminologia di qualche soggetto, illustrati con un'immagine. E così il Garzanti ha veramente messo il mio lessico relativo ai muscoli e i porti alla prova: muscolo frontale temporale, orbicolare dell'occhio, muscolo dell'addome e così via via via, e poi faro, cantiere, carenaggio, frangiflutti .... eh, frangiflutti? Cos'è? Qualcosa per frangere i flutti, ovviamente ("breakwater" in in English). E perciò ho contato questa parola come "so-so" (o "guessable"). Nonostante questi problemi, ho ottenuto un punteggio superiore a quello che ho conseguito con il dizionario rosso di Gyldendal.
IT: Op de bus naar huis een werk las ik gisteren een artikel in het Nederlands van mijn Majorana collectie - het lijkt erop dat de Universiteit van Delft in de voorhoede van het onderzoek van deze ongrijpbare deeltjes is, en de Nederlanders vonden het eerste concrete spoor daarvan. Maar onderzoekers aan de Princeton University in de VS vonden bleek meer tastbaar bewijs van zijn bestaan, dus nu is het de Amerikaners wat meest geprezen word op het internet. Edited by Iversen on 14 November 2014 at 11:39am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4700 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3746 of 3959 14 November 2014 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | ||
Er staat me vaag iets bij van deze ontwikkelingen, alhoewel ik zelf niet in dat lab gewerkt heb. (Ik ben een alumnus van de TU Delft). Het heeft ook zeker hier in de kranten gestaan, en al helemaal in de universiteitsbladen. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6696 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3747 of 3959 16 November 2014 at 1:47am | IP Logged | ||
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NO (+DA): Eg trudde faktisk att eg var ferdig med å gjøre ordoptelling i år, men då husketbemerket eg at det finns ei norsk språk i Noreg. Eg har två norske ordbøker, ei Paludan norsk-dansk ordbok med ei pytteliten Nynorsk ordlista på slutta og ei Tysk<->Norsk Pons. Nynorsk gikk om lag med 73% kjennte ord, men eg blei sjokkert då eg prøvde krefter med resta av Paludan - eg visste ingenting: bare 47% prosent kjente ord! Korleis kann det passa med att eg kjenner igenn nesten alle ord som eg ser på norsk - bokmål så vel som nynorsk? Men Paludan er ei luring: hann har samla alla de mest langhenta og sjeldne ord, men gir fan i de ord som er lik danska ord. Det må ju gå galt! De fyrsta 10 ord eg sjå var "Grunnung" (DA: rødtorsk), "grunnvad" (lille fiskenet, kastenet), "grunnvand" (grundvand - HURRA, EI KJENNT ORD!!), "grunnved" (søtræ, paragorgia arborea), "grunnåte" (ferskvandstangloppe, Gammarus pulex), "gruppehogst" (udhugning af mindre områder hugstmoden skov), "grus I" (grus, JUHU DET ER DET SAMMA PÅ DANSK!), "grus II" (stolt, prægtig, storartet - men ikkje på dansk) , grusk (barsk, hård), "grusmel" (en høj grusskråning)". Blot 2 av 10 - det hadde eg ikkje venta!
Heldigvis finns det òg Pons, og Pons ga meg straks ei smula selvtillit tilbaka: 95% kjennte ord på bokmål. Men det er just derfor att bokmål er så forbannat kjedelig at lesa - det likner for myket på dansk. Nynorsk er mer av en utfordring for meg. Nynorsk er Dovregubba og kumøkk fra Jotunheimen - såleis ska norsk sjå ut. Platt: In mien Majorana-Sammeln geeft's ook een lütte Freesch Bidraag uut Wikipedia. Ik heff aver niemols Freesch leer, aver mit 'n bietje Hoog- en Nedderdüütsh en Nedderlands un wat Fantasie geiht dat prachtig. Een Smacksproop: "It Majorana-dieltsje is ien fan de elemintêre dieltsjes. It is in type fermioanen dat syn eigen anty-dieltsje is." Seeh, dat wöör doch keen Problem, denk ik? Aver no dit Miniatüür höff ik de Tema wesselt: in de Nedderdüütsche Wikipedia höof ik nämlich nix över Majoranas funden, so statt die Majaronen höff ik wat över Gammastrahlen lees. Ik mag Wikipedia. Wikipedia bewiest, dat Platt ook wat över önner Dinger dan törfgraven en küstenneege Fischeree en ölle männer mit 'n Piep in sien Mund informeeren kann. Wikipedia seggt dat "de Begreep Gammastrahlen [betekent] jede elektromagneetsche Strahlen mit Quantenenergien över ruchweg 200 keV,..". Ehr höfft seker noteert, dat "ruchweg" mit 'n lütte "r" schreefen warrt? Dat is üm dat "ruchweg" zwoor en Substantif is, aver adverbiaal hier bruukt warrt. Een önner HTLAlien vun hoogduütschen Prevenienz heeft mi nülich doorvun informeert, dat ik "ein Bißchen" so nich schrieven dörf - ik schall "ein bisschen" schrieven, angäblich um dat de B-woord hier adverbiaal wörr bruukt. Aver dat is nich wohr: "Bi..chen" is jümmer noch een Substantif, un dat is op de Artikel kloor te seehn. Worüm schull ik denn nich ook "ein liter Milch" schrieven? Wenn de Düütschen sien Sprook nich sülvst logisch verwalten künnen, dann möten wi Utlänners si jo hölpen. Dorto kommt, dat ik keen Vermaak höff an sien grote Rechtschriefreform - ik höff Hoogdüütsch voor de Reform leer, og ik dink dat de lütte "ß" so bannig nüüdlich is, dat men si wohren schall. EN: And for ye Anglophones: I have added two Norwegian and one Danisch wordcount. First I felt that I ought to do one for Norwegian. The problem is that I prefer New Norwegian, but the Norwegians prefer Bokmål, so it is hard to find dictionaries to and from New Norwegian (although there must be some specifically for Norwegian school children). But in my Paludan NO->DA dictionary there is a 22 pages long New Norwegian wordlist at the end, so I started out with 2 pages there (73% known words) and then extended the total scope to 5 by adding 3 pages from the main section, which only deals with Bokmål. Oh my GOOOOD, as the Americans say! Out of the first 10 words I only understood 2, and after 3 pages of New Norwegian my statistics said 47% known (59% for all 5 pages). That simply couldn't be correct as I understand practically everything I see (or hear) in any kind of Norwegian. The problem seems to be that Paludan is focused on the words which Danes might have problems with, whereas it is weak on the simple dailyday words which are identical in the two languages. So I added a wordcount based on my thick green Pons German<->Bokmål, and there I went through four pages where I hardly saw anything I didn't understand. Finally I added a Danish wordcount just for fun, but I used the same method as in 2009: I just looked 4 pages in the Danish Retskrivningsordbog through for words I didn't understand, and as in 2009 that was close to zero. Besides I have read a couple of pages from Wikipedia about nuclear physics in Frisian and Low German, and in the rant above I comment on the small "r" in "ruchweg" in a Low German article about gamma rays. That word reminded me of a recent correction, where I was told that the Germans spell "ein bisschen" with a small "b" and "ss". In my humble opinion that's idiotic because the article "ein" clearly demonstrates that the B-word is substantival in this context - just as "L" in "ein Liter Milch" - and then the logical thing is to keep the upper case "B". And besides I find that it is a pity to change so many of those pretty "ß"s into ugly double ss's. Edited by Iversen on 16 November 2014 at 11:32am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6696 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3748 of 3959 17 November 2014 at 10:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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BA I: Saya telah mempelajari beberapa halaman teks paleontologis saya di Bahasa Indonesia - tapi sekarang saya yakin bahwa itu adalah diterjemahkan oleh mesin (meskipun mungkin diarahkan oleh manusia). saya ingin menyimpulkanlah ini dan menemukan teks otentik. Aku akan melengkapi studi teks saya dengan proyek daftar kata yang A untuk Z, karena Bahasa Indonesia adalah bahasa daftar saya pada halaman sebelumnya, yang memiliki persentase terendah kata dikenal - hanya sepertiga dari semua kata. Ini tidak bisa diterima!
I have continued reading my paleontological tekst in Indonesian even though I now am convinced that it is a machine translation - or at least based on one. That means that I can't trust it when it comes to specific expressions, syntax or style. The problem is that it is so difficult to find text about such themes in Indonesian, but I have to find some authentic study materials afterwards. In the meantime I have started an A to Z word list project in order to boost my percentage of known words. To know a mere third of the words in my dictionary is simply not good enough. Edited by Iversen on 17 November 2014 at 10:57pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4514 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 3749 of 3959 18 November 2014 at 12:39am | IP Logged | ||
In "ein bisschen <Noun>", "bisschen" is adverbial just like "en lille smule" is in Danish, even though "smule" is a noun. In this context, "bisschen" isn't perceived as a noun anymore by native speakers, that's why it's written in lowercase. You can also see this in Scandinavian languages when people start writing words together because they are perceiving it as just one adverb instead of an adverbial phrase built of a noun and other word classes. But there are some cases in German where the rules for upper/lowercase are utterly confusing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6696 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3750 of 3959 19 November 2014 at 12:03am | IP Logged | ||
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GER: Ich weiß natürlich, daß Sprachbenutzer mitunter die syntaktischen Struktur eines Ausdruckes vergessen und nur die allgemeine Funktionsweise des Ausdruckes beachten, und die Frage ist hier ob dies bereits mit "ein (b)isschen" geschehen sei. "Ein (b)isschen" als ganzes kann gewiß als syntaktischer Parallel zu "etwas" gesehen werden ("ein (b)isschen müde, (b)isschen Liebe - etwas müde, etwas Liebe), aber nichtsdestoweniger hat dieser Ausdruck auch seine interne Struktur intakt behalten, so wenn ich "ein (B)ißchen" schreibe, markiere ich damit 1) daß ich das niedliche Eszet mag, 2) daß ich immer noch die innere Struktur dieses Ausdruckes beachte. OK, ich bin vielleicht ein B... alt und stuhr, aber so bin ich halt. Und so lange andere Mengenangaben mit einem Substantiv nicht auch klein geschrieben werden, bezeichnet die Kleinschreibung von "(b)isschen" meiner Meinung nach eine unnötige Sonderbehandlung. Warum denn nicht den ganzen Weg gehen und "einbisschen" schreiben? Dann wäre die substantivische Interpretation jedenfalls in der Schriftsprache ausgeschlossen. Und wenn nicht, dann zeigt es, daß auch die Deutschen nicht die innere Struktur von "ein (B)isschen" übersehen können.
Ich habe übrigens deutsches Fern heute gesehen - einen Reisebericht aus Kanada, nämlich eine lange Fahrt mit der kanadischen Eisenbahnen, wo es den TV-Leute unter anderem gelungen ist, einen deutschsprechenden "Hutmacher" zu finden. Er war Mitglied einer religiözen Gemeinschaft, die noch Deutsch wie ihre Vorfahren sprechen und immer noch in einer Eigentumsgemeinschaft auf dem Land leben - etwa wie die berühmteren Amish. Darüber hinaus haben wir natürlich die Angestellten im Zug und etliche Fahrgäste getroffen - wie die Damen, die einen Wapiti sah und nicht ganz sicher waren, ob das gesehene Tier tatsächlich eine Ziege wäre. DA: Jeg har også set to andre udsendelser om tog. Den ene handlede om nedlagte togstrækninger i Jylland, EN: the other about hobos in the United States. Actually it was a German TV production, and it feels slightly weird that a German TV crew would dare to participate in something in a foreign country that actually is strictly forbidden. That being said, I do feel some attraction to a lifeform where you simply jump on a train and ride somewhere - for free. I did something similar when I did my early interrail trips, but I did pay my interrail card first, and I didn't sleep in unheated cargo trains or clamp around on dirty waggons in dark switchyards with guards and police doggin my footsteps. But the days of the free interrail trips are over: the card still exists, but you can hardly avoid paying supplements and reserving seats these days as you could in the 70s. I would like to mention a few TV programs more, one from History channel, which sometimes airs programs in deliciously weird languages with subtitles instead of adding to the grey Anglophone monotony, the second from Discovery and the third right now in English, but with a Scottish twist. The latter is no. 3 in a series about the vikings with Neil Oliver, and right now we are getting the tale about King Harald Bluetooth and his deeds, which included christening the Danes, reburying his pagan parents and building big circular fortresses like Trelleborg. He died when a certain Palnatoke shot him in the bum while he was defecating in the woods (do bears... - well, this king did). And the circular fortresses were all abandoned as soon as he was dead. Maybe Harald wasn't really popular after all, with all that hyperactivity and religious upheavals. His son Suein Forkbeard was more like the good ol' vikings. Speaking about vikings, IC: Ég lít því miður nánast aldrei sjónvarp á íslensku, en History Channel hefur stundum útvarp um fólk frá Íslendingasögum. Í dag um Gunnar á Hlíðarenda (eða Gunnar Hámundarson). Útvarpsþátturin lágði áherslu á aðstæður þar sem tveir af óvinum hans með þrjátíu handlangarar lá í launsátur. Gunnar og tveir bræður hans vörðust og drap um helming óvinum sínum - en því miður dó òg einn bróðir Gunnars, og á þingu var Gunnar ranglega dæmdur til þriggja ára útlegð. En hann varð áfram þar sem hann var og þar varð hann myrtur af óþokkarnar. Og sögu þessu hafa Íslendinganna aldrei gleymt. EN: The last (but one) TV program I want to mention was also in English (apart from isolated sentences in French, Italian and German): it described the recent landing of a sonde from a satellite sent into orbit about a comet. And miraculously there is now a humanmade gadget attached to a big lump of ice somewhere in the universe. One of the participants said that this will change everything. But I don't think my life will change much - from now on it just contains one more peculiar story. SER: И онда сам се погледао Београдска Хронака, која, између осталог, који садржила секцију о саобраћају Београда и интервју са глумицом која се појавила у филму "Догвилле". Dogville? је сигурно режији данског ексцентара по имену фон Триер - али то ме не чини да иду у биоскоп. Edited by Iversen on 20 November 2014 at 2:30pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6696 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3751 of 3959 21 November 2014 at 10:02am | IP Logged | ||
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I have now finished the collection of texts in Greek which I have been using for intensive study for several weeks - the last article told about the use of pig blastocyts in the treatment of heart diseases, NS many of the others have had sociological subjects, so it has been a wide span topicwise indeed. I found one of the articles on the internet, where it turnes out to come from the homepage of a magazine, but I wonder where I found them in the first place - maybe GLOSS.
I have also continued my studies of the paleontological text in Indonesian - now I have reached the Permian. But where my Greek now is at a level where I can read texts on the internet without a translation, I am constantly blocked by unknown words in Indonesian, so I have started a A to Z wordlist project to boost my vocabulary. According to my wordcounts it has doubled since last year, but at about a third of the words in my Tuttle it is still only half of what it should be. I also do wordlists in other languages, but more sporadically - and often based on concrete texts. While I do the A-to-Z I have cut down on the wordlists from texts for Indonesian, but keep a ratio of maybe half textbased, half from dictionaries for the other languages. Yesterday i made a late repetition of some of my Serbian wordlists, using partly the method where I just read write the Serbian words (ie. not even translations in case of problems), partly the more labour intensive method where I copy the translations in groups (while I refresh the connections to the Serbian originals) and then add a Serbian column without peeking in the original list. The purpose of this procedure is to assess the efficiency of two exstremes in repetition methods. I have also made a wordlist with around sixty Greek words yesterday evening after the article about blastocyts. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6696 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3752 of 3959 24 November 2014 at 11:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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This weekend I have been away on a short trip to Fyn, the Danish island whose local dialect is said to be "the language the angels speak on Sunday" (seen in the town museum of Odense, "Møntergården"). Alas, the modern inhabitants of this island, called "fynboer", rarely speak it in public nowadays - not even on Sundays!
I brought along a big fat book I acquired many years ago, but didn't ever read through - the "The Slavonic Languages" by Comrie and Corbett. It will take some time to reach the end (at page 1078), but my chances of getting there are higher now where I have worked with the languages and can follow at least some of the descriptions. Ok, enough about this subject for now. During my single evening in the town Fåborg I did wordlist repetitions in Greek and Serbian, a couple of hundred words in each one. I have come to a conclusion about the two formats I have used recently. The one I introduced in order to make statistics on my Serbian vocabulary gains, columns of target learning words with added translations at forgotten or dubious items (and only there) is quick and simple, but it only functions well when you remember most of the words AND the original memory hooks. But the control aspect is normally not very relevant, and the learning is closely tied to the recall of my memory hooks. The other format, where I copy a group of 5-7 translations from a wordlist (not necessary with the original divisions) and then reconstruct the target language words, is the one to use when the situation around the memorization has faded, and the reason for this is that you get one more chance to form associations. DU: Op dit moment zie ik een Nederlandse uitzending op DR K (Deens Kultur-TV) met interviews en opnames in het Nederlands, het Duits, Frans en andere talen - en met ondertiteling in het Deens, maar het hele gesprek is allemaal zo duidelijk uitgesproken dat het zelden is nodig om te kijken naar het apparaat. Het onderwerp is de ontwikkeling wat na de Tweede Wereldoorlog leidde tot de oprichting van de Kool-en-Staal Unie, die later tot de Europese Unie uitgroeide. En nee, ik heb geen politiek hier te bespreken, en ik ga niet mijn oprechte mening over die onderneming z'n huidige toestand zeggen. Echter, er zijn een aantal eigenaardige details die ik veilig overbrengen kan, zoals dat Luxemburg eens had een meneer Beck, die tegelijkertijd de minister van Buitenlandse Zaken en Wijnbouw was. De hoofdpersoon was toch een m'sieur Monnet, die Frans was, en het is zijn naam die vandaag wordt herinnerd. FR: Juste maintenant mr. Monnet signe quelque chose - peut-être le traité. OK, l'histoire... Mais pour moi ce programme est surtout une possibilité entrendre un peu de néerlandais. Et français, allemand et anglais - ou tous en même temps. "Gossiping, c'est bavardage". Plus tards on a organisé les services linguistiques. DU: En nu draaien ze hun ogen naar België om de moeilijkheden bij het organiseren van Europa te illustreren. De belgische taalgrens in België gaat bijvoorbeld door het dorpje St-Joris Weert. Aan één kant van de borden staan tekens op Vlaams, anderzijds van de straat zijn ze op Frans. Edited by Iversen on 25 November 2014 at 4:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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