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Is spoken Latin the same across Europe ? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5226 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 17 of 45 27 July 2011 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
This reminds of people who think the tones can't matter that much in Mandarin. I completely support adding new vocabulary to Latin. I wish people did it more robustly, rather than simply introduce every new term as either a gangly compound of four words or as something indeclinable. It seems to me perfectly in keeping with the spirit of the language to expand the vocabulary while preserving the grammar rules. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jdmoncada Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5032 days ago 470 posts - 741 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Finnish Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 18 of 45 27 July 2011 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The simple answer to the original question is "no."
My background is in music, and as an American musician trained in the United States, our rules of pronouncing Latin most closely match that of Italian. It seems completely logical to my thinking and to the thinking of those around me. I had music before I had language, and I admit that it is almost physically uncomfortable for me to hear Latin prounced differently (such as the German or other northern European) way. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5226 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 19 of 45 27 July 2011 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I also had music before language, too. I think the Latin in music should be pronounced as the composer intended, which varies from time to time, country to country, with the preference being for Church Latin. But would Orff have preferred the German pronunciation for the Carmina? What did Back have in mind with the B minor mass? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| clumsy Octoglot Senior Member Poland lang-8.com/6715Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5176 days ago 1116 posts - 1367 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Japanese, Korean, French, Mandarin, Italian, Vietnamese Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swedish Studies: Danish, Dari, Kirundi | Message 20 of 45 01 August 2011 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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We in our Latin class were told that there is thing like Polish Latin pronunciation .
Well, it's a language not used in speech anyway... so... (there are some radios etc, but we don't know what language ancient Romans spoke, people did not have tapes at that time, we can only guess) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5226 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 21 of 45 01 August 2011 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
It's quite a bit more than guesswork. There are many ways of discovering pronunciation of a dead language--commentary by its orators, treatment of words imported into the language and words exported out, spelling mistakes (which indicate which sounds were closest), etc. Latin pronunciation has been quite rigorously reconstructed. See: http://www.amazon.com/Vox-Latina-Guide-Pronunciation-Classic al/dp/0521379369 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 22 of 45 01 August 2011 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I didn't deny that Latin (and classical Greek, by the way) had a system built on wowel length and that wowel did matter in those languages. I wrote " I feel that it slows down the speed of the language if you are too fussy about drawing out some vowels and leaving others ultrashort. I even doubt that the old Romains spoke like that." Thee are speakers like Miraglia who can keep up a natural-sounding cadence in their Latin, and that is my idea about the way Latin should be spoken. Some other speakers on the internet (the only place where I hear them) are so scared to drop a distinction in vowel length here and there that they sound like the CDs that follow language courses. And that is definitely not how a (wo)man in the street of Ostia or Roma or Pompei would have spoken.
Spot on. Some authors of supposedly Neolatin dictionaries are apparently scared to death about using a simple and short loanword if there is anything from the long history of Latin that could have been used instead, and because of the risk that they may have overlooked something they prefer using long contrived circumlocutions to avoid criticism from their peers. But again: this is not how the Romans in Rome would have spoken. Edited by Iversen on 01 August 2011 at 6:59pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5226 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 23 of 45 02 August 2011 at 5:33am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Forgive me, then, as I don't disagree with you, and should have read more carefully. One tidbit though: one of the keys to reciting Sanskrit is great elongation of long syllables and ultrashort short syllables. I wonder if such was the same with Latin recitation. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Jurga Triglot Newbie Lithuania Joined 5435 days ago 19 posts - 24 votes Speaks: Lithuanian*, English, Latvian Studies: German, Arabic (classical), French | Message 24 of 45 03 August 2011 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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It seems that students everywhere are told: "Latin pronunciation is very simple, just say
it as you see it written" (and probably the only rules often are about C letter). I've just started learning Latin (on my own) but actually what quite prevents me from progress right now is that I found out that there aparently are as many versions of the language as there are textbooks. Maybe Italian is closest to Latin however I know many people at first pronounce Latin words trying them to sound 'something similar to Italian'. It's not good either. ScottScheule, thanks for that link, I'll try to get this book as I really want to find out what exactly like I should speak. Though I guess...we learn modern languages as they are used today. And Latin...we cannot 'fix' the point of its development and learn Latin as it was spoken then. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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