|
 |
Self-teaching methods declared useless | ||
Tags: Rosetta Stone | Self-Study | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Walt1974 Newbie United States Joined 5142 days ago 3 posts - 2 votes Studies: English* | Message 17 of 81 01 July 2011 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
So what self-study course (brand) from your local bookstore, if you could pick only one to start with, would you choose? Edited by Walt1974 on 01 July 2011 at 4:11pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Jacks Newbie Romania cursurienglezao Joined 4829 days ago 1 posts - 4 votes | Message 18 of 81 02 July 2011 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
@Petteri
You said : "To my experience self-studying seems to be far more effective than learning language at school." That is because in school you learn vocabulary and grammar mainly. At least here in Romania. You are actually training your memory (words and rules) and not your ability to speak the language. If one’s purpose is to just learn to speak a foreign language, I would choose the option of self learning using some sort of audio guides. Because in order to speak a new language, you’ll need to accustom your brain first, to recognize and accurately reproduce (sending proper signals to your tong and the other muscles) the new sounds, specific to the new language. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4763 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 19 of 81 08 September 2011 at 1:43am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I'm glad to say that my experiences of evening classes (also in GB) has been a lot better. Particularly in the last 2 years where I have been going to classes run by the continuing education department of a good university, and noticeably better than the equivalent FE-college type courses. Excellent and enthusiastic native speakers as tutors, and ~90% of the class is in the TL, with English usually only being used to explain tricky grammar points, or where the students are struggling. This is a class where it is expected that the students have been studying the language for at least 4-5 years, so the level is moderately high (for an evening class). Which is not to say it is without problems. We have to use a textbook, and these are all of the same ilk. Horrible, unnecessary colours, rendering text very often near illegible (ok, not for 18 year olds, but I haven't been 18 for a very long time). Both students and tutor get bored with them before the end of term 1, so the tutor brings in her own exercise sheets, etc. Still, that's not really her fault or the university's. Because people are supposed to have reached a certain level, I notice a reluctance on behalf of the tutors to correct some gross errors sometimes, especially pronunciation. I've been listening to one lady for the last 2 years pronouncing the "v" in German words like "von" like the "v" in the English word "very" or "Vera", and it drives me nuts. And similar errors. More serious errors do usually get corrected eventually, but there is a reluctance to embarrass the student, which is nice in a way, but sometimes we have to learn the hard way. And these classes are not cheap: next academic year it will be £275 for 2 X 10 week terms, with an optional 3rd term for ~£140. Approx 2¼ hours per week. The tutors put in a lot of work marking homework, if students bother to do it... So, the picture is not perfect, but it's not all bad news. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| learnvietnamese Diglot Groupie Singapore yourvietnamese.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4884 days ago 98 posts - 132 votes Speaks: Vietnamese*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 20 of 81 08 September 2011 at 5:49am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
I think self-learning is most suitable for adults, especially those who have previously learned one language (through going to school/teachers, I suppose).
One of the most beneficial aspects of self-learning is the flexibility in time and commitment. But certainly, this doesn't work for everyone (or most people, if you would). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5365 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 21 of 81 11 September 2011 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
I'm not sure that the author quoted in the OP really meant that self-teaching methods are useless. Sure, she has her own products for sale, but in all fairness to her, I think she really means that you can't learn a language well just from these products. I basically agree with her not because I think it's impossible to learn a language entirely on your own, but because simple observation tells us that the vast majority of people who buy these products give up very quickly.
These products are tools. Some are better than others. Most people here heap scorn on Rosetta Stone. But it seems that quite a few people and institutions like it. Others swear by Assimil, Fluenz, Pimsleur, Michel Thomas, etc. I notice that most of these products are aimed at beginners. Assimil, and some others undoubtedly, have an advanced level. But I have yet to see products that explicitly state that the user will or could reach a specific level of proficiency, i.e. B1, B2 in the CEFR scale. I believe that all language learning, even within a classroom environment, requires a lot of self-study. The advantage of a class, as we all know, is that there is a human guide and some chronological framework with tests and external discipline. But it's just a tool. All sorts of other things are very important. High motivation is a given. Actual contact and feedback with the language are very important. This is where the person quoted in the OP is right in a sense. Private lessons with someone who concentrates solely on helping you and answering your questions are arguably among the most effective learning tools. And probably the most expensive. Let's be real here for a minute. Does anybody really believe that a box for $99.95 will teach you as much French as 10 hours of private instruction at $50 an hour? We're talking about apples and oranges. As the author rightly--I think-- points out, these self-teaching products can be helpful teaching aids but not much more. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4844 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 22 of 81 12 September 2011 at 12:02am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Allow me to redirect you to what she wrote: "Cons: You will not learn French." It doesn't get more explicit than that.
Teach Yourself books now all make specific claims using the CEFR scale. I couldn't say how effective they are at getting you to those levels, but I have noticed they make an effort to cover the CEFR topics. They claim their "Perfect Your..." books will get you to level C1. See this link: http://www.teachyourself.co.uk/Documents/Languages/Amazon-La nguage-Guide
Yes, yes I do. I have had excellent private instruction. However, even "10 hours of private instruction at $50 an hour" is not going to get you very far. Having only started using Assimil, I do feel that a box for $36 is going to get me much farther than 10 hours of private instruction. I would guess that something like Assimil is equivalent to about 50 hours of private instruction (I had 2 hours a day for 5 weeks). I assume that you make a similar amount of effort and time commitment in both cases. 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5365 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 23 of 81 12 September 2011 at 2:46am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I won't quibble over how many hours of private instruction an Assimil program is worth. If Assimil gives the same the results as 50 hours of private instruction, I'm impressed. I don't see how language teachers still have jobs. A local university in Montreal charges about $250 for about 40 hours of group instruction. My God, for half that price, every person could have the equivalent of 50 hours of private instruction. Or better yet, for less than one fifth of the the cost of that university course, every student could buy a Teach Yourself book and get the same results without having to leave the house. Forgive my facetiousness. Let me rephrase my point here. I think private instruction is probably the most effective way to learn to actually speak the language. Assimil and a host of products do a relatively good job of teaching the language, but I believe that nothing beats a live person who will interact with you, correct your grammar and pronunciation on the spot, explain things, drill you and answer all your questions. Can you watch a television program or a movie with Assimil sitting next to you and get immediate answers to that common question "What did they just say?" I have puzzled over recordings for hours trying to figure out what was said so I could look it up in the dictionary. Then it takes my instructor a few seconds to figure out what was said. Will you learn to actually speak French well, let's say at B2 level, solely with Assimil by yourself in your little world? Maybe, but I seriously doubt it. I'm not saying chuck these self-study products out the window. Neither does the author in the OP. They have a place in the toolbox. And not everybody can afford 50 hours of private instruction. I believe in the judicious use of a private instructor or a language buddy. In my opinion, a book, a CD or a sophisticated piece of software can never replace a live person 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| misslanguages Diglot Senior Member France fluent-language.blog Joined 4781 days ago 190 posts - 217 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: German | Message 24 of 81 12 September 2011 at 2:56am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
Self-study is the ONLY thing that works for me.
4 persons have voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
