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Bakunin TAC 2013 Asian 鶴 / Żubr | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5131 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes  Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 17 of 94 06 January 2013 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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Time for another 20-hour update. I've had a lot of free time these first few days of the year, and it's been a great and productive start of TAC 2013. Tomorrow, I'll be back to work and will progress at a slower pace.
Listening: 14 (+7.3) Reading: 16 (+8.3) Speaking: 4 (+2.4) Writing: 2 (+0.7) Other: 3 +(1.2) Total: 40 Listening: Lots of listening to radio talk shows, including programs on mental illnesses, traditional stories of Southern Thailand, and a show where listeners can call in and get medical advice. Some of those traditional stories where difficult to follow because there were lots of references to mythical figures I'm not familiar with. I was completely lost listening to a law professor explaining his views on the process against former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, so I didn't count it towards my listening hours. Reading: I finished หาสหายผจญภัย ตอน แผนลักพาตัว and started with หาสหายผจญภัย ตอน ทลายแผนค้าของเถื่อน. Enid Blyton books are easy, easy reading, which I really enjoy. There are at most two, three unknown words per page, and the vast majority of them is immediately clear from context. Often new words tend to get repeated a few times over the following couple of pages and start to feel familiar pretty soon. I'm probably learning huge amounts of vocabulary and expressions by just reading for pleasure. I've been reading lots of stuff, mostly news and health, on the internet as well, and I've started working my way through a wikipedia article on King Rama I. This is tough going, full of royal terms and titles, but contributes towards one of my side goals for this TAC. Speaking: One hour conversation practice through italki, in which we went through two short news articles on the King (Rama IX) and two news stories on a recent global happiness ranking and an ATM machine that doubled the amounts withdrawn. I also had two, three conversations with friends on Skype and on the phone. I was quite frustrated with my performance today on the phone; I messed up a lot, sentence structure, tones, words. Some days are better, some are worse. Writing: Lots of chatting on whatsapp. Other: Typing. I've finished the chapter on kinship terms as well as the next one on democracy. I was surprised to see the concept of democracy introduced so early in primary school grade 1. The next chapter is an introduction to financial services and on how to use money, and I'm looking forward to working through it; expressions related to lending, borrowing, withdrawing etc. are not my strongest point at the moment. Edited by Bakunin on 20 January 2013 at 8:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| viedums Hexaglot Senior Member Thailand Joined 4667 days ago 327 posts - 528 votes Speaks: Latvian, English*, German, Mandarin, Thai, French Studies: Vietnamese | Message 18 of 94 08 January 2013 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi Bakunin, nice to see you’re keeping a log. If you’re interested in working on ratchasap and the formal vocabulary of Buddhism, I have a suggestion. Are you familiar with the ชาดก or Jātaka tales? These are the stories of the Buddha’s former lives. The most famous, at least in Thailand, is the Vessantara-jātaka (Phra Wesandorn), about the prince who gives up everything, even his children. The last ten, the Tosachat, are also quite well-known and often appear in temple art. The language in these stories (which are translated from Pali) tends to use many of the royal terms, because the stories are set in ancient India and often involve kings, princes and ascetics. It’s a kind of high, formal register that combines both royal and Buddhist elements. Getting to know the stories, especially Wesandorn, might give you some kind of insight into Buddhist moral thinking as well.
I’ve read the last ten in a version probably meant for young adults called พระเจ้าสิบชาติ, published by ธรรมสภา press. There’s also a very nice two-volume set edited by Nidda Hongwiwat, with fantastic illustrations from different temples in Bangkok that really bring the stories alive. It’s out of print, unfortunately – I wish I had picked up a copy when it was available. And since the Wesandorn tale is often recited on special occasions, you can listen to recordings of it, like the one below. Phra Wesandorn 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5131 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 19 of 94 08 January 2013 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | ||
Hi viedums, thanks for stopping by! :) That's great advice, I'll certainly look into these stories. พระเจ้าสิบชาติ seems to be online as well, for instance here. Is that what you meant? There seem to be versions of varying difficulty... And thanks for the link to the recordings, it's cool to hear that kind of language spoken :) Edited by Bakunin on 13 January 2013 at 7:53am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| viedums Hexaglot Senior Member Thailand Joined 4667 days ago 327 posts - 528 votes Speaks: Latvian, English*, German, Mandarin, Thai, French Studies: Vietnamese | Message 20 of 94 09 January 2013 at 2:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yes, that’s what I had in mind. And there certainly are different versions – you could read the English translation from the original at the link below, it’s over 100 pages long. I would guess that the recorded version is close to the full one, because listening to such recitations is a way to make merit, and they presumably would attach some importance to having the complete one. I think any version would use the royal words (like เสด็จ for ไป , พระทัย for ใจ , ทอดพระเนตร for มอง/ดู etc.) for certain characters. I would say the jatakas are easier reading than history texts about the Bangkok reign, where you have to deal with the long titles for kings and officials, and the use of Buddhist years for dates.
The stories in the Tosachat, especially Wesandorn, are a part of Thailand’s cultural heritage, so it’s worth getting to know them. Still, there are hundreds of other, shorter jatakas in the collection – one good illustrated version, with each story 3-4 pages long, is Nidda Hongwiwat’s ๘๐ ชาดก คุณธรรมสำรับเยาวชน from the Saengdaet puean dek press (2551). Tosachat in English 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5131 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 21 of 94 09 January 2013 at 3:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks again! I've already figured out myself that it's not fun to read through general-purpose wikipedia articles on the Rama kings. Those long titles and countless relatives, all promoted several times to obscurely named court positions, are simply too complex for me. So I'll gladly follow your advice and read Tosachat instead, starting with Wesandorn. I'll report back how it's going here in my log. Thanks also for the book recommendation; I'll be in Bangkok end of this month and will have a look at it (if I can find it). While you're at it, can you recommend any Thai history books (or websites) for young readers, for instance on the Burmese wars or the time of the early Rama kings? A story, instead of a comprehensive, formal description, would be much more fun to read... or a recommendation for a good 'local' bookstore? So far, I've mostly been to the large ones in and around Siam square, for instance Kinokuniya or Se-ed. When I did a few months of volunteering in Chiang Mai last year, I regularly went to ดวงกมล, which seemed to have a different selection of books than the ones around Siam square. Edited by Bakunin on 13 January 2013 at 7:53am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| viedums Hexaglot Senior Member Thailand Joined 4667 days ago 327 posts - 528 votes Speaks: Latvian, English*, German, Mandarin, Thai, French Studies: Vietnamese | Message 22 of 94 10 January 2013 at 3:20am | IP Logged | ||
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That's a good question about history books/websites for young readers - unfortunately I don't know any. One thing I did when I was reading about Thai history etc. was to use a book called หนังสือดี 100 เล่มที่คนไทยควรอ่าน, edited by Witayakorn Chiangkuun. It sounds gimmicky, but the works chosen are quite diverse. The book itself contains 7-10 page mini-essays on each work, along with biographical info about the writer. I mainly just read these instead of tackling the full-length works. Witayakorn seems to be one of those former student activists from the 70s, like Thongchai Winichakul, Kasian Tejapira et al, that are interested in presenting a less patriotic/nationalistic view of Thai history and society. There is a Wikipedia page for this that has the list of the 100 works, but I'm not sure if the book itself is still available in stores or not.
About bookstores - Chula Books, the bookstore for Chula Uni, is on Siam Square in the same building as the British Council. It has a lot in both Thai and English, and usually gives a 10% discount for everything they sell. For school textbooks, there is a chain called Prae Pittaya which is quite good. There's one on Silom Road near the Sala Daeng BTS station - exit on the south side of the street, walk west until you see a McDonalds, and it's on the ground floor in that building. My favorite bookstore for Thai history/literature is Muang Boran, which on the Democracy Monument roundabout (Rajdamnern Klaang). It's not huge, but definitely worth checking out if you're in Banglampoo. It's associated with the culture journal of the same name, and with a well-known archeologist whose name escapes me. So, keep us posted on your reading, and let us know if you find a good history textbook or narrative. I've used some school texts for learning Khmer, but for some reason I never really did that for Thai. Edit: Just thought of two more interesting bookstores in Banglampoo. One is across Rajdamnern Klaang from the Muang Boran store, next to the McDonalds. It's called Sueksaphan and belongs to the Teacher's Council, part of the Education Ministry. It's full of textbooks, although it has a warehouse type of feel as it doesn't seem to be run as a commercial enterprise. Upstairs it also has a nice selection of Thai musical instruments. And on the other side of Khaosan Road, across from Wat Bowornniwet, is a Buddhist bookstore that besides religious texts has a lot of other stuff - it's also worth a look around. Edited by viedums on 10 January 2013 at 9:13am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5131 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 23 of 94 10 January 2013 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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Wow, thanks for the recommendations! I'm really looking forward to checking those bookstores out! The Chula bookstore, is it the one in the shopping center at จามจุรี square? That's a good one as well, I somehow had forgotten about it. I'll have to bring an extra suitcase for all the books I'm going to buy :) Edited by Bakunin on 13 January 2013 at 7:54am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5131 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 24 of 94 10 January 2013 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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Time for another update…
Listening: 22 (+7.7) Reading: 25 (+8.2) Speaking: 6 (+1.5) Writing: 2 (+0.3) Other: 5 (+2.3) Total: 60 Listening: Radio, VoA, NHK, SBS, as before. So glad about TuneIn Radio, the radio app. I've started using TuneIn's recording button to record talk shows during the Thai afternoon (Swiss morning) to listen to later during the day. Reading: Continued with my book and read lots of stuff on the internet. I'm currently reading through a lot of stories on manager.co.th/family. Some of these stories have a historical setting and some are more like fables, but all teach something about good behavior, often from a Buddhist point of view. I started on the wikipedia article on King Rama I, but won't continue for the moment… to many royal titles and names and court positions for me to handle. Following up on viedums' advice, I started reading พระเจ้าสิบชาติ, which is much more accessible and combines royal with Buddhist vocabulary; too early for any substantial feedback, though. Speaking: Conversation practice through italki and a number of Skype and phone calls. Writing: Almost nothing. Other: A bit of scriptorum, but mostly typing. Finished the chapters on money and on natural resources, and started the next one on work. I really like how schoolbooks introduce words and concepts. While I've seen most of the technical terms before, it's interesting to read the explanations and examples and about suggested activities. I also like the diversity of topics in schoolbooks - they have to cover everything citizens need to know. Edited by Bakunin on 20 January 2013 at 8:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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