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Shared vocabulary of Italian, German, and Russian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes  Speaks: Russian* | Message 9 of 24 30 May 2013 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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But is it certainly proved that Italian and German have more recognizable cognates than
Italian and Russian? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 10 of 24 30 May 2013 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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What is a "recognisable cognate", and how would you go about counting the words?
What would constitute proof in your eyes? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 11 of 24 30 May 2013 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | ||
I don't know but how did Volte and others determine that Italian shares more common vocabulary with German than with Russian? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 12 of 24 30 May 2013 at 4:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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Based on our experience with the languages. There are quite many international words that Russian doesn't use, for example helicopter. Italian and German tend to use them also when Russian doesn't (elicottero, Helikopter).
Of course you can find all sort of examples between the three languages. Russian and German both borrowed the English word football, whereas Italian uses the name of the game played in Florence in the 16th century (calcio). But this is more of an exception. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 13 of 24 30 May 2013 at 5:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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Is Fussball a borrowing or a calque or even just how you say it, given the Germanic roots
of German and English? (it is cognate for sure)
My guess is that there is etymological evidence for this. But that is naught but an informed guess. But you do know that German and Italian share a linguistic border, so there is bound to be crossover. Edited by tarvos on 30 May 2013 at 5:16pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6440 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 14 of 24 30 May 2013 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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Марк: I determined it by studying both Russian and German, and fluently speaking Italian. The similarities and differences between languages become obvious with surprisingly little study. It's obvious that Italian is a lot closer to Spanish than it is to English; it's almost as obvious than Italian is closer to German than it is to Russian, that it's related to both, and that it's not very close to either. If you want it quantified, that can be done to various degrees with corpora, from a page of text to some more representative sample of the language - but I don't intend to spend hours doing that; I'd be shocked if no one else has.
Similarly, as Serpent said, she's studied both Italian and German, and is a native Russian speaker - and comes to the same conclusion from that perspective. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Γρηγόρη Tetraglot Groupie United States Joined 4456 days ago 55 posts - 154 votes Speaks: English*, Greek, Latin, Ancient Greek Studies: German, French, Russian | Message 15 of 24 30 May 2013 at 5:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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Most of Russia's Latinate imports come via French, since the Russian nobility once spoke French amongst
themselves. German has many more words culled directly from Latin, since Latin was so integral to the educational system until the 20th century. That being said, German also has many Gallicisms borrowed from its next door neighbor. I would think, however, that the Latinate vocabulary in German would be more transparent to an Italian speaker. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 16 of 24 30 May 2013 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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If anyone is truly into this, I'd suggest a rough or imperfect starting point would be to look at Swadesh lists.
P.S. Another way to get a very rough idea is to count the items that I found on the IDS project and checking off boxes for German, Italian and Russian under "Advanced Browsing" on the left. Edited by Chung on 30 May 2013 at 5:59pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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