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TAC 2014 - Team Oranje - TEAM THREAD | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 161 of 213 17 February 2014 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | ||
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Nice try, but the "g" is not the difference. My g always is a bit in free variation.
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| tommus Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5864 days ago 979 posts - 1688 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish | Message 162 of 213 18 February 2014 at 12:06am | IP Logged | ||
Please don't plan based on my availability because I am extremely busy these days, even on weekends, and its not very predictable. I'll try to join in if I can. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hekje Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4701 days ago 842 posts - 1330 votes Speaks: English*, Dutch Studies: French, Indonesian | Message 163 of 213 18 February 2014 at 4:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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Tarvos - Dammit...
Tommus - Gotcha. :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 164 of 213 18 February 2014 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | ||
It's also not a single isolated word that's different. It's a pronunciation thing that runs throughout the whole recording. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6907 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 165 of 213 18 February 2014 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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Alright, I hear some difference after 10 seconds into the second recording.
Example 1 - tongue-tip r/flap/tap/whatever after consonants and in intervocalic positions Example 2 - uvular r Both examples have retroflex R before consonants (as far as I could hear). 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 166 of 213 18 February 2014 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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Retroflex r in front of consonants is pretty much standard Dutch whatever sound you use
otherwise, although there are people in dialects who often pronounce the same sound and add a schwa between the r and the following consonant (except if that consonant is a d/t). Yes, the difference is in the r sound. Alveolar in 1, uvular in 2. (The second is my natural pronunciation). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Suzie Diglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 4227 days ago 155 posts - 226 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Dutch | Message 167 of 213 18 February 2014 at 9:32pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hekje, I'm so sorry it wasn't clear....
As far as I had understood, "en stoemelings" means you do something not the proper way (you do not follow the official rules) and thus keep it secret. You don't tell anyone (= je bent stom). In my example a colleague needed a specific task to be completed. But if she had asked her colleagues and had waited for their answers, her project would have been delayed. So she did this task quickly herself (trying not to make it public. But I caught her:-)). Has this become a bit clearer? Tarvos, great thanks for this task! I have spent ages in front of my computer, again and again re-playing both recordings in parallel, stopping after each few words. I couldn't find the difference. But I am very bad at these things....Jeff - congrats!! Tarvos: Is that r specific for a specific dialect? Edited by Suzie on 18 February 2014 at 9:38pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 168 of 213 18 February 2014 at 10:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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Which r? Every pronunciation of "r" is extremely dialect-dependent. The way I
pronounced it is more or less the "newscast-reader" voice. The rolled r in the first part is I think the original, official pronunciation, but the French r is equally common, especially in the west. Newscast readers can use either. So whichever pronunciation I choose it's both okay (that's why most people don't really hear the difference unless they're trained). R changes in front of a consonant or in coda (at the end of a syllable, like in "maar") because having to go to the trouble of pronouncing an actual "r" is too cumbersome. In Belgium they do pronounce a full r though. (But I can't really imitate a Flemish accent). In dialect, or in Flanders, you will often hear the remaining "r" sound because they don't weaken the r, so you will hear verrrrruf instead of verf (with the r turning into something like English or Swedish). For example, when I say "bewaard", you will hear the r disappear a bit and become weaker and it will not trill. This is standard in the Netherlands for most people in the west (and always before d/t), but in "verf" (an f comes after), usually you can tell who is from where when they say "vewf" or "verruf" because the second is usually the dialectal way of saying it. R after a consonant, between vowels or when starting a word is, however, ALWAYS pronounced with either the tap or the uvula. Unless you are speaking posh Leiden dialect (then it's like in English, but that is the most horrible accent I know). En stoemelings... hahaha.... c'est belge! Edited by tarvos on 18 February 2014 at 10:29pm 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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