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Why won’t she speak Croatian with me? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| tennisfan Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5371 days ago 130 posts - 247 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish Studies: German | Message 17 of 33 23 October 2011 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | ||
I'm not quite sure what you mean---what exactly should I ask her? I have already asked why she thinks we don't speak Croatian more. It hasn't and won't ever be a serious, dramatic conversation. I wish we would speak more, but like I said, what is beautiful about our relationship is our connection, no matter what language we're speaking, so I'm never going to let it become a big deal. But to answer your question, when I've asked her why, she hasn't really found a good answer. And honestly---she might not know. It might just be subconscious. What she told me and what I wrote in my first post was the best explanation she could think about---that we "met" in English, and when we first met, I wasn't speaking Croatian at all, and so it's hard to suddenly switch into Croatian. It makes sense. And it might not be much more complicated than that. There are some exceptions, though. For example, we text/sms a lot, and when it is written, she uses Croatian a lot more. Our sms messages are at least 50/50 English/Croatian. And it is not that she doesn't want to use it at all when we speak---we'll be talking about something in English and I might ask her a question and she'll respond with "da," out of the blue, in a cute way. And as I said, when we flirt or are just relaxing and having fun, she will speak to me in Croatian (most of her endearing terms for me are in Croatian). And---this is the most fun---when we are out and she wants to tell me something without other people knowing, she'll speak to me in Croatian. It's fantastic---we were at a restaurant a few weeks ago and the waiter was bad, the food was bad, everything, and so she started telling me in Croatian how much better it would have been if we could have just stayed home and cooked. But of course, when we're just talking about normal things, what we did that day, what groceries we need, and so on, it's all English. I would LOVE to have a serious, normal conversation about something requiring a higher level of speaking---politics, art, family, anything at all. I can do it. She knows I can. But it seems to me like she only thinks we should speak Croatian together in those unique situations---texting, flirting, or just being silly. Normal conversation--all English. It was really good to read everyone's replies. I want so much to speak more with her in Croatian, but I'm not sure what to do about it. The LAST thing I want is to do something that will then make it awkward between us, like asking her to spend a day just speaking Croatian, which might be good for me, but weird for her. And once you ask, you can't un-ask, so to speak, and if she isn't comfortable with it or she thinks it's a weird idea, it then puts the spotlight on it, which I don't want. I just want it to be normal and completely natural. I speak well enough where she doesn't need to be correcting me, where I can make myself understood at a relatively high (but not perfect) level. I have a vocabulary somewhere between 3500-4000 words, I'm great with cases, my spoken speed is relatively high. I don't know. I don't think there is any doubt that marriage is in our future. And I'm really excited about that---one of the reasons I really want to develop our own bilingual relationship is because when we have children, they'll be speaking English and Croatian, and I want us all to talk together... at the table for dinner, for example, us all speaking Croatian, or English, whatever... and I want to be ready for that. It's a complex but not incredibly serious situation. It would be one thing if she told me she didn't care that I spoke Croatian, or if she gave me signs that she didn't think I spoke very well, and so on. But she has gone to great lengths to show me how important it is that I've learned her language. (she had one other serious boyfriend, he was from Blackpool or Wigan or somewhere in the northwest, and she let him meet her parents and they weren't able to communicate at all, obviously, and so it moved her so much that I did that, for her, for them, for us). She is always telling me how impressed she is.. ...oh! I just remembered something. About a year ago, almost a year into our relationship, we were living for a few months in different parts of the country. Back then I was at a conversational level, I could manage, and occasionally be clever, but not for long periods of time. One day we were on the phone, she was in line at the grocery store or something and so she started talking in Croatian. I responded in Croatian, too, and I said something like "can you imagine how well I will speak Croatian in two or three years, after us living together?" and she said "you're going to speak perfectly, baby." I smiled the rest of the day. So thinking back on that now... I wonder... well... what did she mean by that? if we don't actually speak Croatian, how will I end up speaking perfectly (as a result of, at least partially, living with the woman that I love)? She didn't say "well, I will try to help, but I don't know if I can..." and so on. That's what is so confusing---she wants me to speak perfectly, it means the world to her, and yet... it doesn't end up with her speaking with me! That, I guess, is the main issue. I want to speak Croatian perfectly. I'm not at such a low level where her speaking to me is like some kind of lesson. I'm high enough where we can talk normally. If I speak to her more regularly, I will master the language in a few years, or even sooner. But how do I approach it?---this is the fundamental question. It is not an issue worth causing problems in our relationship over. And yet it is something that is at least a little odd to me. So my bringing it up again and again, eventually it becomes a bother. I wish I knew how to balance it and make it natural and normal and not create some artificial problem by turning this into something bigger than it is. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5020 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 18 of 33 24 October 2011 at 10:17am | IP Logged | ||
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You said Croatian is natural to communication of you two in some situations. So you can try to make more situations seem natural. As someone said, speaking about a Croatian film you are watching at the moment. Or rather try to speak Croatian in the moment you want to speak it (like the normal conversation about what to buy at greengrocer's or a more complex one about what you've read in newspaper etc). Either she will answer in Croatian and slowly find out it is not that weird in such situation, or you will speak each other's language in the conversation or you will both return to English if it does feel that weird. Nothing worse can probably happen.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ChristopherB Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 6327 days ago 851 posts - 1074 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, German, French | Message 19 of 33 25 October 2011 at 5:24am | IP Logged | ||
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Why not save up for a trip to Croatia for a few weeks? I imagine it's probably easier
said than done, but that could really and truly bring the language to life like never before. Have you ever visited her country before? Edited by ChristopherB on 25 October 2011 at 5:25am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6593 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 20 of 33 25 October 2011 at 7:20am | IP Logged | ||
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As others have said, once a language is established for a relationship (of any kind), it's really difficult to change it. I've experienced this many times. I speak Cantonese with my girlfriend, where I had the good fortune of being able to make a switch from the Mandarin we used when I first met her, but this is mostly because she's not too comfortable in Mandarin, so it was a relief to her when we could start speaking in Cantonese. However, her mother speaks perfect Mandarin and I still speak Mandarin with her, even though her Cantonese is also native. I'd speak Cantonese with my girlfriend and her mother would say "Wow, your Cantonese is getting really good!" in Mandarin to me.
The same thing happened before I learned Cantonese. Hanging out with a bunch of people who were all native Cantonese spekaers but spoke perfect Mandarin, they'd still speak Cantonese with each other and Mandarin with me. Sometimes they'd apologise and promise to only speak Mandarin while I was present, only to turn around and say something in Cantonese. When you just say something without thinking, you'll use the language that comes naturally, and what language comes naturally depends on whom you're speaking with. Here's my advice: Ask your girlfriend if she would have anything against you pressing for more Croatian. She probably uses English because it's the natural thing to do when she wants to say something to you and she's not currently thinking about speaking Croatian. If she has no problem with it, just start replying to whatever she says in Croatian. It's like putting your wallet in another pocket. In the beginning, you'll reach for the old pocket by sheer habit and you have to make a mental effort to remember to put it back in the new pocket. After a while, however, if you persist, it will become natural and the new pocket is the "go-to" pocket. So just persist and I think it can change, but make sure you do it with your girlfriend's assent and cooperation. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6561 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 21 of 33 27 October 2011 at 11:17am | IP Logged | ||
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I don't understand your needs. If her English is much better than your croatian, why force her to speak croatian? Are
you trying to use her like a language partner? If you're shooting for 50-50, shouldn't you be at equal skill levels? You could refuse to speak English, but if you do, your conversation would be less articulate. Is that acceptable? Would adding an additional girlfriend who doesn't speak English be acceptable? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Teango Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member United States teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5567 days ago 2210 posts - 3734 votes Speaks: English*, German, Russian Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona | Message 22 of 33 28 October 2011 at 5:53am | IP Logged | ||
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@tennisfan
Drink an imaginary magical brew tonight and wake up Croatian tomorrow! Then buy freshly cut flowers, slap on some scent, and invite your girlfriend on a surprise Croatian date. Try something new or go somewhere you've never been together before, all the time with a clear view to creating positive memories and fun shared associations in your new adopted language. Something as simple as preparing tasty home-cooked Croatian food together will set a cool precedent for switching between English and Croatian in the future, especially once you level up your skills, and you'll of course be scoring bonus points with your better half too. :) Edited by Teango on 28 October 2011 at 5:55am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| vikavictoria Pentaglot Groupie United States Joined 5060 days ago 49 posts - 74 votes Speaks: Persian, English*, German, Spanish, Tajik Studies: Russian | Message 23 of 33 07 December 2011 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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This is interesting, since even with my parents, we speak usually in our heritage language (their native language, MY heritage language), and when we speak in English about everyday things (see, we will speak English if we're talking about things like official documents, or where English vocab is essential), it just seems so impersonal. So, even with my friends who speak my heritage language, we always speak in that language since it just seems, again, impersonal to speak in English.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6608 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 24 of 33 08 December 2011 at 10:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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What an adorable thread:')
I agree with those that say it's difficult to switch, whether it's romance or friendship. That's different but I for example find it so weird that some (many) learners are able to practice their target language when they want, and then speak to the same person in English (or another common language). I'd feel so damn embarrassed if I said something in English to a person with whom I normally speak in their native language! That's like admitting failure. If I know the language well enough to have used it, I can't go back. I might insert specific words but saying something and knowing it'll lead to a conversation in English? no way. I say nothing or I reply with a smiley and hope I'll come up with something to say in the target language or I google and google and google till I manage to say what I want to say, even if I know it's wrong and clumsy. But for me to use English it has to be almost a matter of life and death. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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