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Can you read with the same fluency...? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5588 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 1 of 61 24 March 2010 at 2:47am | IP Logged | ||
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Read a book in your target language with the same fluency (or close) as your native language? (Granted you miss one or two words, but I'm talking about picking up a book, and just reading it for enjoyment.)
Oddly enough, this is one of my goals. I stumble over 5-15 words a page, which I don't think is too bad for speaking with a native once in my life. It would be so much fun to pick up a book in German or Spanish and just read to enjoy it, not to learn if you know what I mean. I have a couple friends that can do this, and I'm talking about 500 page novels. (The Kite Runner, etc). Warning: Reading in your target languages really teaches you how much you DO NOT KNOW! (and how many words your dictionary DOES NOT HAVE :P) Edited by Fasulye on 24 March 2010 at 7:53am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5384 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 2 of 61 24 March 2010 at 3:05am | IP Logged | ||
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I took 2 Italian classes 15 years ago and I can understand more when I read Italian than
when I read Japanese, which I've been studying intensely for over a year and half. In other words, the answer is highly dependent on the kind of language you are studying. It's interesting that you say your goal is to read books. I wonder what proportion of language students have the same objective. Personally, my goal is communicating with natives. For me, language is essentially an intellectual game and an opportunity to meet different people. Edited by Arekkusu on 24 March 2010 at 3:06am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| pohaku Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5654 days ago 192 posts - 367 votes Speaks: English*, Persian Studies: Arabic (classical), French, German, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 3 of 61 24 March 2010 at 3:30am | IP Logged | ||
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My goals are primarily about reading. With a little effort last year, I got my mediocre German up to the point that I could read novels with pretty good comprehension, i.e., needing to look up a few words a page, though I usually didn't bother to look them up if I understood what was going on. Hermann Hesse was a good choice, and I read through several of his novels.
My reading of classical Persian is a very different animal, since it's all medieval, all poetry (much of it book-length poetry), often mystical, and intentionally literary, with all the difficulty that implies. However, after a few years of rather intensive effort, I find myself reading some Persian (e.g., Vis o Ramin by Gorgani, 11th century CE) almost as rapidly as I would read similar material in English. After six months of Arabic, I can read 1001 Nights (the language of which dates back several hundred years, at least) only by looking up many words, and I'm often off-base because of my limited grammatical understanding. (My entire study consists of this reading, by the way. No classes, no primers, just me and the text and a dictionary and a grammar.) However, I feel like I'm making some real progress now. These stories are not excessively hard, and I can imagine a point in a year or two when I know most of the words and most of the grammar. There will be plenty of Nights left to go after that, and I look forward to just picking up a volume and reading. My Arabic experience, even though it's only been six months, has been very instructive and good for my confidence. It's a reminder of what most of us know somewhere deep down: That if we work every day on our target language(s), stay relaxed about our ignorance, keep patient about making measurable progress, and concentrate on the satisfaction that comes from the process itself, as slow and mystifying as it may be, we will eventually be reading fluently (or talking fluently, or whatever your goal is). I'm working on Bengali now. It has taken me about a month to start to become comfortable with the writing system. I love looking at those shapes which are still somewhat decorative rather than instantly meaningful; that'll soon change. And maybe, in not too long a time, I'll be able to pick up a story or poem by Tagore or the lyrics of a Baul song and just read it. The thought enchants me. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| pfwillard Pro Member United States Joined 5702 days ago 169 posts - 205 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 61 24 March 2010 at 3:30am | IP Logged | ||
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Get a stack of the 150-200 page novels instead of doorstops and nonfiction that you're interested in might work better than novels. The main problem are idiomatic expressions that can't be looked up easily. I just write them down and try to keep going. Flow vs. knowledge.
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| Levi Pentaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5570 days ago 2268 posts - 3328 votes Speaks: English*, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Dutch, Portuguese, Mandarin, Japanese, Italian | Message 5 of 61 24 March 2010 at 3:45am | IP Logged | ||
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I can, but only with French. Probably Esperanto too, though the only Esperanto books I've ever owned were learning materials.
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| Johntm Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5425 days ago 616 posts - 725 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 6 of 61 24 March 2010 at 4:14am | IP Logged | ||
I'd love to do this one day, too. I haven't picked up a book in Spanish and tried to read it, but going on Spanish websites and listening to Spanish music and watching Spanish TV reminds how much I don't know. Also saying something in English and thinking "How would I say this in Spanish?" also reminds me how much I don't know...yet. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Pyx Diglot Senior Member China Joined 5738 days ago 670 posts - 892 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 7 of 61 24 March 2010 at 5:16am | IP Logged | ||
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Most likely all non-native English speakers here are more or less like that. I definitely read English as well as German. Chinese, however, is a very different beast. I'm grateful for every sentence in the novels that I"m reading which I DO understand ;)
Arekkusu, I'm feeling with you. It's depressing, isn't it? I could read a Spanish newspaper better than a Chinese one... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| hypersport Senior Member United States Joined 5884 days ago 216 posts - 307 votes Studies: Spanish | Message 8 of 61 24 March 2010 at 6:00am | IP Logged | ||
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I read Spanish novels all the time, just like in English. The latest I'm reading is "El Asociado" by John Grisham.
One of the best ways to learn in my opinion as you can get lost in the story and get the benefit of all the grammar and vocabulary as a side effect. The part that is work is reading these novels out loud. This is what I do to continually work on pronunciation and intonation. Just like when you read something in English, you know when it sounds right. Same for me with Spanish, I know when I need to go back and re-read a paragraph. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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