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Korean N romanized as R? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6428 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 1 of 10 18 May 2012 at 6:32pm | IP Logged |
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Is this common? I know vowel words are sometimes romanized with a W, Y, or L in front (such as the last name U being romanized as "Woo," or the last name I being romanized as "Yi" or "Lee"), but I've never seen it this way before:
Ex-Korean president 노태우's name is written "Roe Tae-woo" in English? Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roh_Tae-woo Why not "No"? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| vonPeterhof Tetraglot Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4763 days ago 715 posts - 1527 votes Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2, Japanese, German Studies: Kazakh, Korean, Norwegian, Turkish | Message 2 of 10 18 May 2012 at 8:05pm | IP Logged |
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I think this should explain it. A feature distinguishing modern South Korean from North Korean is the disappearance of initial ㄹ from Sino-Korean words. The traditional Latin transliterations of Korean names are based on older conventions, hence they preserve the older ㄹ-initials, just like official North Korean spelling. Russian transliterations are sort of inconsistent about this - 李 (리/이) is always rendered as "Li", but 盧 (로/노) becomes "No", at least in the names of South Koreans
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| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6428 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 3 of 10 19 May 2012 at 12:16am | IP Logged |
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So if you were reading a news article out loud to a group of people and you came across the name Roe Tae-woo, how would you pronounce it. The news article is in English.
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| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5526 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 4 of 10 19 May 2012 at 5:08am | IP Logged |
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Like vonPeterhof noted, several Sino-Korean roots that start with ㄹ or ㄴ undergo changes in pronunciation and spelling in South Korean when placed at the front of a word. Common examples: are 녀 > 여 (소녀 vs 여자), 리 > 이 (as seen in the family name Lee), 년 > 연 (작년 vs 연말), etc. From what I've seen in my Hanja studies, the rule for syllables starting with 로 seems to be to shift to 노 at the front of a word for South Korean.
Example: 綠 = 록 > 녹; 초록색 (green color), 녹차 (green tea) That said, I've seen plenty of romanizations of the last name 노 as "No" (노사연, 노유민, 노홍철, etc.) and can't ever recall seeing it as "Ro/Roe" before. Perhaps it is a personal preference of his family to pronounce the family names using the old pronunciation. Edited by Warp3 on 19 May 2012 at 5:12am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| vientito Senior Member Canada Joined 6329 days ago 212 posts - 281 votes | Message 5 of 10 19 May 2012 at 6:28am | IP Logged |
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there seems to be some irregularity in the rule or maybe I am not too clear on the exact rule
compare these two: 시청률 ; 청취율 Both 률 (rate) occur at the final position yet one keeps the ㄹ whereas the other drops it 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Leurre Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5416 days ago 219 posts - 372 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Korean, Haitian Creole, SpanishC2 Studies: Japanese | Message 6 of 10 19 May 2012 at 9:51am | IP Logged |
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A couple of things are being mixed up here.
For the previous post: When there is a 받침 that is not 'ㄴ' in the previous syllable, then you get '률'. If no 받침, you get 율. This is not exactly related to the 두음법칙 the first post is bringing up. Ex: 경쟁률/이혼율/투표율 As for 노태우 and 노무현, there is no grammatical action/rule at work. The normal 두음 법칙 as applied in South Korea always has the ㄹ in question changed to a ㄴ at the start of a word, in line with the example mentioned above. Practically no one in South Korea writes their family name without applying 두음법칙. (the exception to this seems to be those 李씨s who actually sued in the past to be legally recognized as 리 and not 이. This is a super super minority though). So why, when pronounced in another language, do they pronounce/write it 'Noh'? Well, there is the desire of a politician to not give his opponents too easy a time by having his English name being 'President No'. That's just asking for it. Edited by Leurre on 19 May 2012 at 5:07pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6428 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 7 of 10 19 May 2012 at 5:48pm | IP Logged |
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I was getting confused because the wikipedia article says the Korean pronunciation is still "no." I know there are consonant pronunciation changes in Korean, like how b becomes m before n or whatever (hapnida -> hamnida), but this seemed to be a Romanization issue. It's written 노. Korean pronunciation is "no." Romainzation seems to be "Roe." What is English pronunciation? Edited by IronFist on 19 May 2012 at 5:49pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| vientito Senior Member Canada Joined 6329 days ago 212 posts - 281 votes | Message 8 of 10 19 May 2012 at 6:03pm | IP Logged |
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care to explain why 근력 (筋力), with a 받침 plainly in sight, is not written as 근역?
while in your example 이혼율 is not as 이혼률? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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