Is ℵ a Greek Letter? (Specific Languages) Language Learning Forum

Is ℵ a Greek Letter?
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Josquin
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Message 9 of 26

17 April 2015 at 6:02pm | IP Logged

Also, aleph doesn't really represent the letter A (although it can be used that way), but the glottal stop.
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Monox D. I-Fly
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Message 10 of 26

17 April 2015 at 7:21pm | IP Logged

eyðimörk wrote:

Monox D. I-Fly wrote:

If so, it's kinda weird that a letter which looks like N is an equivalent of A.

Why?

Capital lambda looks like an A, capital sigma looks like an E, capital eta looks like an H, capital rho looks like a P, small nu looks like a V, small eta looks like an N... why would similarities to other alphabets, especially other alphabets not used by the language in question, matter even remotely (even if they shared a common origin 2000 years in the past)?

That's why the hardest script for me is Russian. They look so similar with Latin, yet the readings are too different.

eyðimörk wrote:

By the way, in less time than it took you to write this post, and definitely in less time than you had to wait to get a response, you could have answered the question with a web search. The top results on Google to Is ℵ a Greek Letter? tells you all about Aleph, the Hebrew Alphabet, and how Aleph is used in mathematics, no need to spend several minutes looking even.

Just a tip for when you want an answer sooner rather than later.

Looks like I've become too dependant on internet forums that the simple solution like your suggestion didn't occure in my mind.

Serpent wrote:

To me it looks much more similar to X than N.

Smaller font makes it looks like N more than X.

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Jeffers
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Message 11 of 26

18 April 2015 at 4:26pm | IP Logged

eyðimörk wrote:

Sorry, but I object strongly to this post. Almost any question asked on the forum can be googled, but then what's the point of a language discussion forum. OK, the OP might have gotten a clear answer quickly, but the rest of us wouldn't have known about it! I enjoyed the responses to the question. I didn't know Aleph was used in mathematics, so I for one am glad he asked us the question rather than do the easy thing and just google it.
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tarvos
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Message 12 of 26

18 April 2015 at 4:43pm | IP Logged

Josquin wrote:

Also, aleph doesn't really represent the letter A (although it can be
used that way), but the glottal stop.

It's not, it's just that the underlying niqqud that represent the vowel /a/ in Hebrew are
never written. Often when you see aleph at the beginning of the word, it's quite simply
silent.
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Serpent
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Message 13 of 26

18 April 2015 at 4:58pm | IP Logged

Jeffers wrote:

I enjoyed the new info too but I agree that there's a big difference between asking about some idiomatic usage and about a strictly defined mathematic symbol. Most HTLAL questions are a matter of opinion and experience but this isn't.
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eyðimörk
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Message 14 of 26

18 April 2015 at 6:34pm | IP Logged

Jeffers wrote:

Sorry, but I object strongly to this post.

You strongly object to someone being told: "if in the future you want faster answers, here's how"? I never expected anyone to have a very firm negative opinion on guiding people towards optional efficiency in their simple yes/no or quick basic fact questions.
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Doitsujin
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Message 15 of 26

18 April 2015 at 8:56pm | IP Logged

tarvos wrote:

Josquin wrote:

Also, aleph doesn't really represent the letter A (although it can be
used that way), but the glottal stop.

It's not, it's just that the underlying niqqud that represent the vowel /a/ in Hebrew are never written. Often when you see aleph at the beginning of the word, it's quite simply silent.

Even though Aleph doesn't represent the letter A, it's the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet. In that regard it's similar to the first letter of the Greek alphabet, Alpha, which, as you surely know, is also used in formulas.

BTW, some German black letter (Fraktur) characters (e.g.

) are still used to denote vectors in mathematical formulas, e.g. Lie algebra.

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Josquin
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Message 16 of 26

18 April 2015 at 8:57pm | IP Logged

tarvos wrote:

Josquin wrote:

Also, aleph doesn't really represent the letter A (although it can be used that way), but the glottal stop.

It's not, it's just that the underlying niqqud that represent the vowel /a/ in Hebrew are never written. Often when you see aleph at the beginning of the word, it's quite simply silent.

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. Are you saying aleph doesn't represent the glottal stop or the vowel a?

Well, both ways, the matter is more complicated. First of all, aleph designates a glottal stop! If you want to indicate an a-sound, you need the respective niqqud sign ("patach"). As Modern Hebrew normally doesn't use niqqud, writing an aleph as mater lectionis has become the usual way of indicating an a-sound where it seems necessary (i.e. in loanwords etc.). I think Modern Hebrew inherited this system from Yiddish (please correct me if I'm wrong).

However, you're correct insofar as the glottal stop which aleph used to represent isn't realized by many speakers of Modern Hebrew today. That's one of the many simplifications the Hebrew phonetic system has gone through.

Edited by Josquin on 18 April 2015 at 9:05pm

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