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Latvian stands firm against Russian. | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| cathrynm Senior Member United States junglevision.co Joined 6126 days ago 910 posts - 1232 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Finnish | Message 49 of 91 20 February 2012 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
There was a civil war in Finland I think in the 1920's. There were Christian based Finns and those that supported the Communists. It was pretty bitter, because when Finnish immigrants got here to the USA, they, of course, divided into enemy camps, each with their own Finn hall. There were even riots and here in Berkeley the Finn Hall burned to the ground. My grandmother was a communist supporter to the end, but when we went to Finland everyone thought she was just nuts, I think. My sense of this is that Finns have been preparing for the 'next great war with Russia' for so long that it's just become part of the background noise, though I don't think they see this as a joke. Farther south the conflicts are still a bit more fresh -- I told some Romanian guys I had Finnish ancestry, they responded warmly "Oh, so you hate the Russians too!" Honestly, I try not to get involved. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 50 of 91 20 February 2012 at 11:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
Basically that's it. The most recent memory is what lingers most vividly. If Russia and Finland don't fight each other for at least another couple of generations, the nastiness and mistrust accumulated via Russification, the Civil War and the Winter War will likely fade. As I said earlier, whatever goodwill accumulated between Finns and Russians during the era of the Grand Duchy of Finland faded quickly when Russian/Soviet foreign policy later turned against Finnish interests. It's no accident that Finno-Russian relations can be a touchy subject. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Veel Tetraglot Newbie Norway Joined 4694 days ago 23 posts - 41 votes Speaks: Lithuanian*, Latvian, English, NorwegianC1 Studies: Greek, Estonian | Message 52 of 91 21 February 2012 at 12:54am | IP Logged | |||||
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This discussion makes my blood boil. For the obvious reason – it concerns the recent events in Latvia, and yet, because it has already turned into discussion for its own sake, slowly but surely descending into the quagmire of pontifications.
You might find my opinion very biased, but I will not even justify myself, for I have got my personal reasons for that. I am not Latvian, but I perceive myself inseparable from the Latvian tongue and everything Latvian: I listen to Latvian radio daily, read Latvian medias, literature and even think or dream in Latvian sometimes. I know some Latvian, Latvian Russian, Latvian Lithuanian and Lithuanian Latvian people in person. I picked up this language from scratch, not having the Latvian heritage or any relations to Latvia whatsoever, several years ago, and have been working in slow and deliberate way to improve ever since. And as a direct consequence of that, I grew to love Latvians. You might wonder, why so? Love for the sake of its own. Being from the neighbouring country, I feel we have suffered the common fate in the course of centuries, while situated at the crossroads of the West and East Europe, always amidst the fierce clashes of great powers, always questing for our identity – “Whence come we, whither go we?” The referendum is no remedy for this chronic disease, namely Latvian – Russian conflict in Latvia, as it has been developing slowly during the decades and is nothing but the outcome of the most perplexing historical events. Only surgical intervention would be of some help, but who is skilled enough to perform it? Some of you scream out loud: give the Russian language back to the Latvian Russian people and grant the full rights and privileges, and they all will happily live together in peace and harmony ever after. I doubt that would solve anything. A chronic disease is indeed chronic disease and one magic (non-existent) pill will not cure it, only a short-term effect might be expected. Latvian Russian people is not one homogeneous unit struggling to survive under the great Latvian oppression. You might be completely taken aback by its bewildering variety: there are those who came decades ago to rule and be supperior or those whose ancestors came centuries ago, brought by hopes to get prosperous or by a pure love. Ones who mastered the national language and get settled in and work really hard for the better common future, and ones who keep muttering curses at their miserable existence and the fellow Latvians who make all that unbearable. Ones who participate activelly in country life and ones who remain trapped in their own comfort bubbles – speaking Russian at home and at workplace, going to Russian schools, reading Russian newspapers and listening to Russian radio and music, watching Russian TV, shopping at Russian market places, going to Russian theatre, cinema, concerts, praying at the Orthodox “tserkov” and finally end up their earthly journey by getting buried in the Russian cemeteries. If you need any help and approach the latter with your indeed polite question “So sorry to bother you, but do you happen, by any chance, to speak/ understand any Latvian?” (in Latvian), they take that as a personal insult, get furiuos instantly and burst out in long, comprehensive Russian curses (sorry, cannot help yielding to temptation and quoting Jerome K. Jerome: “they cursed us -- not with a common cursory curse, but with long, carefully-thought-out, comprehensive curses, that embraced the whole of our career, and went away into the distant future, and included all our relations, and covered everything connected with us -- good, substantial curses”) or whatever else. Or the others take that in a much calmer manner – “Oh, don’t hesitate (=don’t pretend you can’t), go ahead and speak Russian!” (in Russian) Fortunately or unfortunately, I cannot string one Russian sentence together, as I grew up having only strong negative attitude towards “everything Russian/ made in the USSR” in general. They came and annexed our countries, robbed, tortured, killed, deported hundreds of thousands of people to Siberian working camps/prisons, settled in to plant and cultivate nasty seeds of omnipotent propaganda. It took me years to realize how biased after all I am and rediscover such great Russian things as art, literature, music on my own. Comparing Latvia to such countries as Canada, USA, Belgium, Finland, Switzerland..is completely misleading. If you’re at least a bit into maths, it takes no time to realize the vast differences in scales – area, population and power. Do you happen to know any bilingual/bicultural families? No matter how loving and caring both spouses are towards each other, one of their spoken languages usually dominates over the other. They can claim they divide them equally, but such an equality is hardly attainable at all, unless they speak only one’s own language each (and don’t live in one of their respective home countries)or have the third common language. What about bilingual countries, then? Even if two official languages are maintained equally, some degree of hidden hostile remains, especially so, if one of those groups is supposed to be indigenous peoples, but the other – only later settlers. We do not share any language in common, and I am reluctant to make any effort and learn your language, will you then learn my language? Edited by Veel on 21 February 2012 at 6:11pm 9 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5274 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 53 of 91 21 February 2012 at 6:08am | IP Logged | |||||
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Funny how there's no mention of Finland's contribution to making Leningrad a living hell during the siege.
Nor the fact that Russia's wars with the Turks are a major reason Wallachia (i.e. ultimately Romania) got out from under Turkish rule. It's just the usual way these things go with Russia. Constant bashing for the bad things Russia has done to other countries, but no mention of the bad things other countries have done to Russia. The bias in the West - which stems from a longstanding hysteria in British and German/Austrian political circles - trickles down to all circles of public life. It's truly unfortunate. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 54 of 91 21 February 2012 at 6:35am | IP Logged | |||||
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Aw, c'mon Merv. You're no fun. All of us can give as good as we get, right? ;-)
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| kerateo Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 5647 days ago 112 posts - 180 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English, French Studies: Italian | Message 55 of 91 21 February 2012 at 6:41am | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes, bias... No one says anything about the United States annexing Indian-American lands
and annihilating its occupants (much worse than what the Russians did in Latvia). Someone posted that Spanish shouldn’t be allowed to be an official language in California when the US annexed those lands from Mexico. But the Russians are the bad guys… 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 56 of 91 21 February 2012 at 6:48am | IP Logged | |||||
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*sigh* I'm already recalling vonPeterhof's recent post...
5 persons have voted this message useful |
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