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Cantonese | ||
Tags: Cantonese | Learning Strategy | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Tigresuisse Triglot Senior Member SwitzerlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6006 days ago 182 posts - 180 votes  Speaks: Italian*, English, German Studies: Russian | Message 9 of 28 08 September 2008 at 11:06am | IP Logged | |||||
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_(language)#Writing_syste m
here you can find some information about the Korean writing system. What I know, is that Korean has a quite different writing system and the Japanese is more similar to the Chinese one, but as I studied Japanese and not Korean I can't tell you more. Just look for more and better information ... Marta 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| neil-flynn Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5962 days ago 116 posts - 117 votes Speaks: English* Studies: SpanishB2, Mandarin | Message 10 of 28 08 September 2008 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
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im pretty sure that cantonese and korean writing are different. Cantonese uses pretty much the same as Mandarin and Japanese
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| trauma2020 Diglot Groupie United States Joined 6575 days ago 58 posts - 64 votes Speaks: English*, Korean | Message 11 of 28 08 September 2008 at 8:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I was just confused because the information is a little unclear on wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanja "Because hanja never underwent major reform, they are almost entirely identical to traditional Chinese and kyūjitai characters... By contrast, many of the Chinese characters currently in use in Japanese (kanji) and Chinese have been simplified, and contain fewer strokes than the corresponding hanja characters." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_character "Traditional characters are used officially in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau" "Traditional Chinese characters are also used in Korean Hanja," Are these two articles referring to the same 'traditional' chinese characters? In the first link it says 'many of the Chinese characters in use in Chinese have been simplified..' is that referring to the mainland only (since it also says HK, TW, and Macau use trad. characters)? So then the characters used in HK/Cantonese and Korean would be the same, correct? Edited by trauma2020 on 08 September 2008 at 8:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Lawrence Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6183 days ago 149 posts - 149 votes Speaks: Cantonese, English* Studies: German, French, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean | Message 12 of 28 09 September 2008 at 11:54am | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes, that's correct. A very small number of characters are different to Traditional Chinese, and from what I've seen, some variants that are uncommon in HK seem to be the norm in Korea.
I think the other members were thinking that you were asking whether Hangul was similar to Traditional Chinese. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 13 of 28 09 September 2008 at 4:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
The simplification of Chinese happened after Taiwan broke away from the mainland, and before the return of Hong Kong to Chinese rule. Furthermore, this was more than just a simplification of orthography -- the central government were trying to encourage dialectal conformity and along with reforming the characters, they were introducing a new written register based heavily on Mandarin. (Previous written texts were in a largely "Classical" style -- a bit like when Italians, Spaniards and French people all wrote in Latin.) Naturally, the people in Hong Kong don't want to write in Mandarin, so they see no reason to change their orthography, and the people of Taiwan do speak Mandarin as well as Taiwanese, but don't want to follow anything coming out of the communist mainland.
The Wikipedia article is, as always, slightly misleading. To be clear it should say that some chinese characters are used in the Korean script. Those that are will be the same, in some cases (but look out for false friends as when comparing English with other European languages). Edited by Cainntear on 10 September 2008 at 5:45am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| roy2005 Diglot Groupie Hong Kong Joined 6551 days ago 70 posts - 75 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, German | Message 14 of 28 10 September 2008 at 2:04am | IP Logged | |||||
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I have never studied Korean, but I would advise not to treat the characters as "the same". The usage can be very different even if they have similar meanings.
The language in the FSI course may be a bit outdated. The style of and vocabulary used in speech have change quite a bit over the last few decades. Therefore, if you are going to use FSI (which I believe is quite good though boring), be sure to get a lot of exposure to modern speech, e.g. by listening to online radios and watching Cantonese movies). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| unzum Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom soyouwanttolearnalan Joined 6915 days ago 371 posts - 478 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Mandarin | Message 15 of 28 10 September 2008 at 7:42am | IP Logged | |||||
I wasn't trying to be argumentative, in case you misunderstood. Cantonese does have a special case with 't', and 'd', and 'k'. When it's a 'final', at the end of a syllable, e.g. gwok3, you don't properly pronounce the last consonant. You put your tongue in the correct position for pronouncing it but you don't voice it, i.e. you don't say it, push the air out. I can't really remember now whether Pimsleur explained that, I don't have the CDs anymore, but I never really found it that difficult learning how to pronounce Cantonese. I listen hard, and then try to repeat the speaker as best I can. Different people learn in different ways though, so if you (trauma2020) have trouble distinguishing sounds or pronounciation in a foreign language, I would recommend using FSI for full explanations. FSI really goes into detail, a lot more than other courses, like Pimsleur or TY. They have a pronunciation section at the beginning of each lesson, which is always really useful. And as for Hanja and Cantonese characters, I would also advise against using a Korean Hanja book to learn Cantonese characters. You'll probably just confuse yourself, even if a Hanja and Hanzi are similar, you couldn't be sure whether they are exactly equivalent. You could try using a mnemonic method for learning the character and the meaning (e.g. Heisig) but save actually using the characters (e.g. writing a letter) until you're sure of the correct reading/pronunciation in Korean and Cantonese. But yeah, supplement FSI with more modern materials as well, Naked Cantonese is good for this, it uses a lot of slang & 'young' language (e.g. o5 instead of ngo5). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 16 of 28 11 September 2008 at 5:51am | IP Logged | |||||
Catch 22. Someone who has trouble distinguishing sounds often doesn't realise it, because they're unaware they're doing it wrong. This is why I believe concious teaching of pronunciation should be given by default, not only if the student needs it. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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