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Reading TL May Delay Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| LaughingChimp Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4700 days ago 346 posts - 594 votes  Speaks: Czech* | Message 33 of 73 20 January 2012 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | ||
No it doesn't matter how children learn, but it matters what you need to know before you can learn to read. It has been observed that people imagine speech when they read. That means you need to know the spoken language before you can start reading. If you don't, your brain will make up something. That something will be very different from how the language actually sounds and it will be impossible to correct later. Also, many people here assume that you can learn to use the language slowly and then progress to use it faster as you improve. Wrong. Language at a natural speed is procesed differently than when you learn it slowly first. You will never reach a native like fluency because it's impossible to do it fast enough that way. It has been observed even with the morse code. Those who started from memorizing the letters and deciphering written code and then tried to progres with faster and faster code soon reached the limit and could not improve any further. But those who started right away with double speed than that were able to handle it within a month. Reading first IS an obstacle between you and the lanugage. Reading is useful, but only for advanced learners. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| lingoleng Senior Member Germany Joined 5299 days ago 605 posts - 1290 votes | Message 34 of 73 20 January 2012 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | ||
What a nonsense. There must be some hundred millions of people who actually did learn languages that way, with success. And there may be a "scientific" study somewhere which "suggests" that there is "evidence" what might be the case, or maybe not. I think successful learners are better evidence than some blown up wannabe theories ... Edited by lingoleng on 20 January 2012 at 8:27pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| aloysius Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6241 days ago 226 posts - 291 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, German Studies: French, Greek, Italian, Russian | Message 35 of 73 20 January 2012 at 10:01pm | IP Logged | ||
Hardly impossible, but it takes a conscious effort and a lot of hard work. But if you learn the pronunciation before you start reading that's no longer an issue. If you have a text with audio you can map the spoken language to the written language. An introduction to the phonology of the language in question is also a good help. Then you are set to start reading. /aloysius 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| atama warui Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 4702 days ago 594 posts - 985 votes Speaks: German*, English, Japanese | Message 36 of 73 20 January 2012 at 10:13pm | IP Logged | ||
I find this statement hilarious. I do have certain weaknesses, pronunciation-wise, but a native speaker friend is training with me over Skype, and I'm gradually getting better. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| FuroraCeltica Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6866 days ago 1187 posts - 1427 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 37 of 73 20 January 2012 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've actually always felt the opposite. The OP seems to be implying that reading slows
you down. However, it helps me. I only recognise a word if I have read it, and if I haven't read it, how can I be helped? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| hello_panda Newbie United Kingdom Joined 4709 days ago 3 posts - 7 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian | Message 38 of 73 21 January 2012 at 12:06am | IP Logged | ||
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I can see the point op and others are making, as I managed to do this with a good few
unusual words in my native language (I read a LOT as a child!) I now pronounce them much more literally and phonetically as that's how I sounded them out in my head. However it can be undone with conversation. however that said in terms of grasping grammar, spelling and a better vocabulary: reading is fabulous and a great learning tool 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 39 of 73 21 January 2012 at 8:03am | IP Logged | ||
3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Balliballi Groupie Korea, SouthRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4693 days ago 70 posts - 115 votes Studies: Korean | Message 40 of 73 21 January 2012 at 10:26am | IP Logged | ||
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I think immersion works best when there is a goal or purpose in communication. With the type of immersion I experienced, which was hiring Korean people to talk to me in Korean for an hour, I found that I didn't get much out of it. I didn't pick up a lot of new words. I didn't learn new expressions. I didn't really speak much Korean either. I felt out of my depth for most of the time, and a bit bored. I think this was all because it was an artificially created immersion environment.
I believe that with a more natural immersion environment, I would have gotten much more benefit. Such natural environments are one's place of work or one's school. In these places, the people who you interact with can only speak the target language to you and you are forced to speak the target language with them. Also, there is a purpose to your being there. You are there to do a job or to acquire an education. In these situations, finding something to talk about is not a problem. Your communication antenna is turned on and working to pick up language as a matter of survival. There is a drive for you to use your language skills - passive and active skills. You are given lots of language input and also lots of context. There is motivation to remember new words because these words are important for carrying out your work duties properly or for succeeding in the classroom. Now having said that I think there needs to be some clarity when people talk about what language methods are best. Immersion is terrific for learning to speak. However, it's not that good for reading or writing. Remember there are many people out there who are native speakers of English but are illiterate. So for acquiring writing and reading skills, immersion is not enough. There has to be some time spent learning the language from books or similar materials. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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