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Kuji’s Krazy Log II | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 201 of 706 31 May 2013 at 9:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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agreed. some things just take time to internalize, and it may well be a waste of time to attempt to learn them by simply spending more time.
also are you sure it said Japanese is the hardest? I thought it was "officially" considered Korean. *Chinese* (no matter which kind) is also hard, with the writing system AND the tones. I think most people are bound to struggle with one of these two features. But really "the most difficult lang you could possibly learn" is the one you like least. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5980 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 202 of 706 31 May 2013 at 10:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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From the point of view of a native English speaker, Korean is probably a bit tougher but not
significantly more. It seems to have everything that makes Japanese difficult, only with trickier pronunciation and more irregular verbs. As for Chinese, whether it is easier or harder than Japanese probably depends on how well one copes with the pronunciation. People I know who have seriously studied both have told me Chinese grammar is easier. There are more Chinese characters to learn but this is balanced by the fact you don't have to learn multiple pronunciations as you do for Japanese. Of course, prior knowledge of any one of these languages would give some advantage in learning another one. Japanese and Korean share a lot of grammatical features and Chinese loan words are common in both. I actually ended up on a Vietnamese Wikipedia article by mistake the other day and was surprised at the number of Chinese loan words I could recognise from my knowledge of Japanese. Still, I think one East Asian language is more than enough for me, for now. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| kujichagulia Senior Member Japan Joined 4845 days ago 1031 posts - 1571 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Portuguese | Message 203 of 706 01 June 2013 at 9:15am | IP Logged | ||
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This is the page where it says that Japanese is a little more difficult than the other languages in its category (Chinese, Korean, Arabic). I'm inclined to agree a little because, while pronunciation in Korean is more difficult, you don't have to deal with Chinese characters, for the most part. Korean has an alphabet. And like g-bod said, in Chinese the pronunciation is difficult, but the grammar seems to be quite easy, and the characters all have just one pronunciation.
Actually, that would make them about even with Japanese, wouldn't it? Okay, nevermind. Anyway, you guys are right. Learning a language through FSI is a completely different animal than learning through self-study, so I shouldn't even consider those numbers. But what I can learn from my research is that, unless I do all Japanese all the time, it's going to take a long, long, long time to reach C1, and I might as well enjoy the journey. My "real" problem is my impatience. I want to "get in" on the conversations I hear around me in Osaka so badly that this slow pace of learning frustrates me. And yet there's only so much time per day I can spend on Japanese before burning out. I've already solved the burnout problem by keeping a cap on how much time I spend intensively studying Japanese, and I am now able to study more consistently than I ever did before. Now, if I can do something about my impatience, I would go a long way towards better enjoying my Japanese studies. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kujichagulia Senior Member Japan Joined 4845 days ago 1031 posts - 1571 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Portuguese | Message 204 of 706 01 June 2013 at 9:19am | IP Logged | ||
...and just how do you accidentally end up on the Vietnamese Wikipedia? Were you trying to go to the Tagalog or Volapuk version? :) Just kidding. I kid because I love. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5980 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 205 of 706 01 June 2013 at 10:46am | IP Logged | ||
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The links to pages in other languages on Wikipedia is a dangerous tool, that's all I can
say... I understand there's a limit to how much Japanese you can intensively study and I get your concerns about burnout. But if you want to boost your listening skills, I found watching a lot of TV really helped. To avoid burnout absolutely do not treat it as study. Do not judge your performance. If you find yourself getting sucked into the plot, and want to put on the next episode straight away to find out what happens next, it's working. If not, try a different show. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4663 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 206 of 706 03 June 2013 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | ||
My listening comprehension is quite poor. What exactly helped you boost your listening? Listening to many hours of TV? Or listening to the same segment repeatedly? What level were you at when you started? Could you understand just the occasional word or chunks of sentences? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5980 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 207 of 706 03 June 2013 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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Watching lots of TV really helped to bridge the gap between N3 and N2 for listening
comprehension, which is where I think kujichagulia is from what he writes here. At less advanced levels I found listening to and shadowing textbook dialogues to be helpful. If you don't have enough vocab and grammar to get the basic idea of what is going on, TV is probably not the most efficient method. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kujichagulia Senior Member Japan Joined 4845 days ago 1031 posts - 1571 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Portuguese | Message 208 of 706 06 June 2013 at 2:08am | IP Logged | ||
You are probably right, g-bod. I think watching more TV should help get me over the hump. In fact, I probably should have been doing it anyway. Why, I live in Japan! I have access to TV anytime! Just click the power button! I think I haven't really bothered with TV because I tend to not see TV as "study," especially extensively. It's hard for me to believe that I can just sit in front of the TV, watch something in Japanese, and learn something. After all, I've been watching TV in Japan for 10 years, at least an hour everyday, and I'm still at a B1 level. But there could be reasons for that. First, during most of those 10 years I was not consistently studying. Maybe the benefits from watching TV extensively only come when you are actively and intensively studying the language a little each day. Also, the TV that I was watching was mainly news and sports. Not only is the vocabulary difficult, but that is not the best source to learn conversational Japanese. I think I need to get over my prejudice of dramas and find something and watch it. I tried watching what my wife watches, but perhaps we don't have the same tastes. There are plenty of dramas, animes, etc., on TV; I should do searching of my own. A million HTLALers cannot be wrong! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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