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The gli sound in Italian | ||
Tags: Pronunciation | Italian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| giuls Newbie Italy Joined 5028 days ago 23 posts - 31 votes Speaks: Italian* Studies: English, German | Message 10 of 17 13 May 2011 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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I guess that the "lli" sound as in "million" is a good approximation.
I'm not a native English speaker, I don't know if I pronounce 'million' correctly, so I might be wrong on all this. Anyway, if I try to say 'miglio' with the 'lli' sound, the "outcome" seems quite close, but it feels completely wrong in my head and my mouth. When I pronounce a normal 'l' in English, I only use the tip of my tongue up next to the teeth, for example in "alive". Instead, when I pronounce million, a big portion of my tongue is up on the roof, although not completely flat on the palate, and I still have to use the tip of my tongue next to the teeth to pronounce the "L". When say 'miglio', I don't use the tip of my tongue. The tongue is flat against the palate and much more relaxed. So my advice would be to say the 'lli' sound without the tip of your tongue, and by placing you tongue flat against the middle of your palate. If it doesn't work, stick with the "lli" sound, which is fine anyway. Edited by giuls on 13 May 2011 at 1:13pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6021 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 11 of 17 13 May 2011 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Erm... that's not what she said:
Look closely: Not the same... as close as English gets to it Volte said quite correctly that they are different sounds but agrees that it is the closest match. You on the other hand simply said (in your first post):
You said that they were the same -- you did not say "closest equivalent" first time round. In fact, you seemed to ignore the previous discussion where other native speakers had already been discussing it.
Well that's what he asked us for, so please don't criticise Volte or anyone else for trying to help. And by the way, you're very wrong. You can explain to people how to produce sounds and they can learn from it. It's easier to do face-to-face than by writing, but it can be done. Everyone can find the middle of their tongues. Everyone knows where the roof of their mouths are. No-one without a muscular or neurological disability is going to be incapable of pressing the middle of their tongue to the palate. Maybe not first time, but that's to be expected with new types of muscle movement, but they get better with practice. I also don't think Volte mentioned the IPA for the original poster's benefit, but simply to demonstrate to you that they are recognised as two distinct sounds.
Rascheff is not and English speaker in the sense you mean here -- ie. native monolinguals. Why is this relevant to him/her then? You have even less of an idea how he pronounces "million" than you have of how Volte does. Edited by Cainntear on 13 May 2011 at 1:28pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| SnowManR1 Groupie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5498 days ago 53 posts - 95 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 12 of 17 13 May 2011 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Cainntear: “Erm... that's not what she said”.
Volte: “Italian 'gli' is not pronounced the same way as the 'lli' in English 'million'”. SnowMan: If that’s not a disagreement then I don’t know what is, but I never spoke about it not being a different sound. Cainntear : “you did not say "closest equivalent" first time round”. SnowMan: True, however I only provided that detail when I was disagreed with, which I had not problems clarifying. Cainntear: “Well that's what he asked us for, so please don't criticise Volte or anyone else for trying to help. And by the way, you're very wrong”. SnowMan: We all know that sarcasm is difficult to express in written form, but that’s all it was. We’ve all failed at delivering sarcastic humor, but Volte didn’t seem to mind. Also I agree with the idea of describing the movements of the mouth, but just felt an example would have made more of an impact. Just to drive this home…it was sarcasm; however there is some truth in what I said. Cainntear: “Rascheff is not and English speaker in the sense you mean here -- ie. native monolinguals. Why is this relevant to him/her then? You have even less of an idea how he pronounces "million" than you have of how Volte does”. SnowMan: Why relevant? Wonderful question, because neither you nor I speak Russian or Bulgarian & therefore I could not give him an answer that assists him in his native tongue. When someone posts a question on a Forum in the English section I chose to answer him as an English speaker. My example of using “lli” from million is the best example I could give & let’s not forget that he obviously speaks/writes English well enough to ask in this part of the forum. If you disagree with using “lli” from million than that’s fine, but if I’m wrong then so is university level textbooks, Assimil & any other source that uses it for English speakers. Again Volte, sorry if I made you upset & promise to reframe from using sarcastic humor in my posts. Also please clarify this: “You have even less of an idea how he pronounces "million" than you have of how Volte does”. Who’s the “he”, please? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Préposition Diglot Senior Member France aspectualpairs.wordp Joined 5124 days ago 186 posts - 283 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC1 Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Swedish, Arabic (Levantine) | Message 13 of 17 17 May 2011 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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I am not an expert in Russian nor in Italian, and my knowledge of phonetics isn't amazing either. That said, I would
match the "gli" sound to the sort of "ли" sound found at the beginning of a slow "лë" sound in Russian, as found in "лëгки", if that make sense. The L is palatalised by the [jo] sound that follows it, and if you remove the [o], then it makes a sound very similar to the Italian "gli", if not exactly the same. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6021 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 14 of 17 17 May 2011 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Oh, for pity's sake...
OK, tell me what Volte is disagreeing with here.
Rascheff, the guy who was asking the question. (I'm pretty certain that Slavic names ending -eff or -ov are masculine. If I'm wrong, Rascheff, please accept my apologies.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Mrs. Dalloway Triglot Groupie Italy Joined 4979 days ago 70 posts - 95 votes Speaks: Italian*, EnglishC2, Russian Studies: GermanA2, French, Danish | Message 15 of 17 20 May 2011 at 10:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
It's not exactly the same, but it's the best example you can find in Russian I guess (: 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6904 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 16 of 17 23 May 2011 at 6:59pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
This will not help unless you are familiar with Spanish, but to my ear the Italian gli sounds exactly the same as the (Castilian) Spanish ll-sound. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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