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Seven languages and a Thumb | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| osoymar Tetraglot Pro Member United States Joined 4737 days ago 190 posts - 344 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Spanish, French Personal Language Map | Message 1 of 34 23 May 2015 at 2:04am | IP Logged | ||
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First, I would like to apologize to myself for not having started this earlier.
Secondly, I'm not really learning seven languages. Not, you know, seriously. As for the thumb, well that's really the theme of this log. I just booked a trip to Europe this summer and my plan is to travel as much as possible by hitchhiking. I'm a big proponent of hitchhiking for many reasons, but since we're here, let's focus on the obvious- apart from drivers who would rather practice English or who don't speak anything I remotely understand, it's free practice! I'll be starting in Austria, passing through Slovakia, Slovenia, Italy and France on the way to Spain and Portugal. So without further ado, the list of culprits. Japanese Okay, I'm starting off with the least thematically appropriate language, but also still my strongest language. I currently work for a Japanese organization so I'm not short on opportunities to practice. That being said, after I come home I'll no longer be working for them (this is a good thing), so I'm eager to find some habits that will let me keep up. German German was my first halfway decent language, and I'd like to think it's fully decent now. I don't have the same level of real-world usage that I get with Japanese, but I do have regular Skype contact and a high-level, albeit somewhat infrequent Stammtisch that I attend. I can also read fairly well- in a genre novel I might look up a few words per page in the first chapter to get my grounding and then bluff my way through the rest. Portuguese Here's a warning to anyone who plans on learning just enough of a language for travel: you may end up really enjoying it. That's what happened to me with Portuguese, and even though I don't know if I'll ever find the time / motivation to push up to the C level, I'm enjoying where I'm at- fluent conversation about familiar topics, reading blogs and watching silly youtube videos. My goal for now is to get more familiar with European Portuguese (so far, not as difficult as I had imagined. Spanish Spanish is something I've actually learned in the past- in fact, it was the first language I learned. But at this point it's turned itself into the red-headed stepchild of Portuguese, quite the inverse of the usual power dynamic between these two languages. I'm not actively learning the language right now, but I can still get through a conversation when needed. My goal is to make that conversation a little less painful for everyone involved. French And here we turn from more-or-less-serious road to the world famous dabbling lane, full of shady characters and forgotten promises. I bought Assimil New French w/ Ease a couple years ago, thinking I would follow the Arguelles path to polyglottery. I quickly discovered that was not nearly motivation enough. I still find the language fun in a weird way, and I think that a few days of "autostop" in southern France will be enough motivation to get to A1-A2. My goal is to get through a 30 minute conversation and not be taken in the opposite direction of where I want to get. Italian Why don't I like Italian? I truly have no idea. I took a year in college and spent six weeks in Sienna (this being in the middle of summer, with no other students around surely didn't help), and still I just can't get excited about it. I love so many things about Italy- the wine, the food... well primarily those things, but I like them quite a bit! My goal is just to get to really painful A1 short conversation level. Slovene This is sort of the opposite of Spanish- fun level high, practicality low. I've never learned (more than a week of) a slavic language and certainly never a language with a dual! Plus, the country is supposed to be beautiful and they have great wine. On the other hand, the utility gap between "a couple phrases" and A2-B1 is pretty severe. My goal is painful A1 conversation and hopefully learning some old man jokes. Esperanto Yes, well, why not, I suppose. To be frank, I'm mostly considering this as a way to meet fellow language enthusiasts and possibly take advantage of the pasporta servo. Esperanto has never gotten me very excited before, but I think I'll take a quick crack at it some time soon and if it takes hold, so be it. Goal: well, nothing really. Well, that really petered out at the end, sorry about that. I'll take my leave of you now, but before that, every great story needs an antagonist, and mine will be familiar to you: time. I'm currently enrolled in three (unrelated) courses online as well as a full time job and preparing for school in the fall, so while these goals may look modest, there's no guarantee I'll be taking care of all of them. In any case, I'll be glad to share what happens with you, both in English and in some of my stronger TLs. Thanks for stopping by! 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| osoymar Tetraglot Pro Member United States Joined 4737 days ago 190 posts - 344 votes Speaks: English*, German, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Spanish, French Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 34 29 May 2015 at 7:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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I meant to have a series of posts going through my languages one by one, but I realized
there are a few key elements of my current language learning philosophy, as well as a few housekeeping details for the log itself, that I failed to mention in my first wall of text. Firstly- I listed a lot of languages, not all of which I’m actively, openly, publicly learning. I’ve always been a big fan of not learning two A level languages at once, and I might stretch that rule a bit, but I’ll try not to completely break it. The other day in a language tandem I used the term “controlled dabbling” (or something like that), and I think that sums up what I’m trying to do. In general, I’m a big fan of having fun learning languages, and I’m hoping to maximize that without actually hindering long-term progress in my “serious” languages. To that end, I can’t guarantee that I’ll give all seven + one of these languages more than lip service. Until the trip is over, some of the more advanced languages may be restricted to my lazy time, and some of the low priority languages may be relegated to a quick week or two. Another key to my limited success thus far in foreign languages is that I like to focus on aspects of a language that align with realistic goals. So I tend to focus on conversation with languages related to travel, and passive consumption for languages that I won’t be likely to speak. This certainly doesn’t mean I ignore the other aspects, but they do get relegated to a supporting role, and I judge their usefulness based on how they improve the main goal. So in this case, my goals are exclusively related to conversation, and writing / reading are supplementary. We’ll see how that affects things. I promise, this isn’t just my way of excusing myself for poor orthography. This little experiment / phase will be lasting from now until August, when I start my trip- and then in September, when I return and start school, we’ll see what I can handle. As to the structure of the log- there will be little. I'll be expounding on my goals as they develop, sharing a little of my methodology, and hopefully letting you know the results of my experiments. I’ll try to write the majority of entries in a TL, following the [EN] convention. For anything particularly noteworthy, I’ll try to summarize it in English. Now, back to work! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| osoymar Tetraglot Pro Member United States Joined 4737 days ago 190 posts - 344 votes Speaks: English*, German, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Spanish, French Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 34 01 June 2015 at 7:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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[JP]まず最初に私の日本語学習 について語りたいと思います。上記のとおり 、現在は特に力を入れていないんですが私
の人生と、特に私の母国語学習にとっては非 常に大きな存在です。 むかしむかし（笑）、高校４年生（最終年） のとき日本語授業を受けたのが、日本語のき っかけでした。皆さんご存知だと思うん ですがアメリカの高校ではなにもかんでも言 語を覚えられるはずがありません。一年目で はカタカナもマスターできないぐらいでし た。そして大学に入って、しばらくおいとい たらまた４年目から覚えなおしました。それ までにある程度スペイン語、イタリア語を勉 強 して、ドイツ語も専攻にしていました。しか し、卒業後日本に引っ越して、全力で日本語 に集中しました。 なぜ日本語が私にとってこんなに大事な言葉 かといいますと、それまでに一番流暢に話せ たドイツ語にしてもあまりしゃべる自信があ りませんでした。主に授業で勉強して、本は たくさん読んでいましたがそれだけではやっ ぱり母国語で話す実力につながらなくてあま り成長しているように感じませんでした。か えって日本語は根本だけ大学で覚えた上で日 本語しか通じない田舎に住んで独自で勉強 しているうちに言いたいことが通じて、相手 も理解できるようになりました。非常にやり がいがでたし、その後の言語学も結構効率が よくなったと思います。 現在は日系団体で勤めていて、積極的に勉強 しないでただ単に「使っている」レベルです 。しかも今回の旅行のために日本語を勉 強しても意味がないでしょう。ただ、今回勤 務を終えて大学院に入ることになったので今 後はどうにか日本語能力を保つ方法を見つ けないといけませんので、それまでに皆さん からヒントをいただければありがたいです。 皆さんお読みいただきありがとうございまし た！ [EN]Just to go over this quickly- I'm not focusing on Japanese right now, but it will always be an important language for me, as it was the first one where I really learned to communicate with people. I don't study it actively right now, but I won't be working in a Japanese office anymore starting this fall, so I'm looking for some resources around me to keep it up. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| osoymar Tetraglot Pro Member United States Joined 4737 days ago 190 posts - 344 votes Speaks: English*, German, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Spanish, French Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 34 02 June 2015 at 1:20am | IP Logged | ||
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[DE] Also gut, fangen wir jetzt mit der deutschen Sprache an. Wie gesagt
(allerdings auf Japanisch, das zählt wohl nicht), Ich habe German Studies an der Uni studiert. Damals hatte ich nicht so viele Erfahrung im Bereich Sprachenlernen, und mein Studium bestand überwiegend darin, dass ich beim Durchlesen eines Buchs jedes einzelne Wort nachschlug. Also recht unwissenschaftlich, aber auch nicht ohne einen gewissen Erfolg. Ich habe nach einem Jahr Studium einen Austausch-Semester gemacht, und es ist eigentlich den Professoren zu danken, dass ich überhaupt überleben konnte. Trotzdem fand ich es demütigend, auch nach so vieler Arbeit so große sprachlichen Schwierigkeiten zu haben. Ob es daran liegt oder nicht, nachdem ich den Abschluss machte und nach Japan umzog, verlor ich nach und nach die Lust, auch meine passive Fähigkeiten beizubehalten. Damals war ich immer noch der Meinung, man solle möglichst mit der Sprache umgeben sein wenn man sie wirklich lernen will. Und sieh jetzt, wie ich alter und kluger geworden bin... naja, eins von den beiden ist auch nicht schlecht. Einigen Jahren danach, wieder in den USA, hatte ich zumindest eine Art Erleuchtung. Man kann ja Sprachen lernen, nur weil es wahnsinnig viel Spaß macht!!! Na gut, das ist euch natürlich kalter Kaffee, aber damals war es für mich ein Durchbruch. Soweit mit der Vergangenheit, wie steht's jetzt? Ich würde selber meine Niveau als irgendwo zwischen B2 und C1 schätzen, aber ich könnte wahrscheinlich eine C1 Prüfung ablegen, wenn Geld auf dem Speil wäre. Ich habe eine wochentliche Skype- Austausch und ich besuche jeden Monat einen Stammtisch, und ich lese und höre auch nebenbei Zeitungen, Podcasts usw. Ich werde mich zuerst nicht bemühen, mein Deutsch systematisch zu verbessern, und statt dessen ein bisschen auf der Stelle treten. Nicht, dass ich glaube, es lohnt sich nicht. Aber ich erlaube mir jetzt eine kleine Phase gezielter Wanderlust, und das langsame Reifen einer fortgeschrittenen Sprache muss fürs Moment die zweite Geige spielen. Basta. Aber! Ich möchte doch nebenbei mein Verständnis von verschiedenen österreischischen Dialekten bzw. Akzenten verbessern, einschließlich des österreichischen Standard- Deutsches. Zu diesem Zweck verwende ich die Angebote von ORF, aber wenn jemand einen anderen Vorschlag hat, bitte sag mir Bescheid! Ich freue mich wie immer auf Korrekturen. Danke fürs Lesen! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| AlOlaf Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5149 days ago 491 posts - 617 votes Speaks: English*, GermanC2 Studies: Danish | Message 5 of 34 02 June 2015 at 4:59am | IP Logged | ||
Ich bewundere deinen Abenteuergeist! Hier klingt die Satzmelodie ein bissel wienerisch. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4522 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 6 of 34 02 June 2015 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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Auf youtube nach "MA2412" suchen, eine der besten österreichischen Fernsehserien (Comedy). Ist auf Wienerisch, sowohl Dialekt als auch stark akzentuiertes Standarddeutsch (je nach Rolle). Für tiroler und salzburger (stark normalisierten) Dialekt sind Wintersportübertragungen zu empfehlen. Bei Skispringen hört man öfters auch Oberösterreichisch und Niederösterreichisch.
Ansonsten bleibt noch Volksmusik auf youtube, vor allem Tirolerisch ist dort weit verbreitet. Edited by daegga on 02 June 2015 at 10:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| osoymar Tetraglot Pro Member United States Joined 4737 days ago 190 posts - 344 votes Speaks: English*, German, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Spanish, French Personal Language Map | Message 7 of 34 03 June 2015 at 10:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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Danke, Al und daegga!
Diese Wien.at Seite hat wirklich eine Vielfalt an Videos, aber auch viele Hilsfmittel für Touristen und Kulturinteressierte- und zwar auf Englisch, Deutsch, Französisch, Spanisch, und Japanisch, unter anderen! Ich habe gestern nur ganz kurz MA2412 angeschaut, aber ich glaube sie entspricht genau meinem Geschmack! Es wird nicht leicht sein, das Wienerisch zu verstehen, aber ich muss halt versuchen. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| osoymar Tetraglot Pro Member United States Joined 4737 days ago 190 posts - 344 votes Speaks: English*, German, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Spanish, French Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 34 04 June 2015 at 12:41am | IP Logged | ||
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Vamos então falar um pouco sobre o português, a lingua que eu mais recentemente
aprendi, e a única que aprendi sozinho, usando os mesmos métodos e dicas que li aqui no forum. Obrigado, HTLAL! Antes de começar, me sinto obrigado a pedir desculpa pelo nível do meu português escrito. Comecei a aprender a língua por motivo de viajar para o Brasil, e na época me enfoquei ~80% na fala, lendo textos principalmente só para melhorar meu vocabulário e compreensão da gramática. Meu primeiro passo foi o Assimil Brasilianisch ohne Mühe, um livro que eu recomendaria para qualquer falante de alemão. Infelizmente não existe um livro Assimil para aprender o variante brasileiro de base de inglês, mais para mim claro que é um enorme prazer estudar uma lingua estrangeira usando outra. Depois de um mês de Assimil fui acrescentando outras fontes da língua, principalmente fontes nativas. Ja entendendo um pouquinho de espanhol, não achei tão difícil assim ler um artigo em português- só que tive que procurar cada segunda palavra no dicionário! Também me mergulhei no mundo infinito da música brasileira. Logo depois me preparei para conversar, preparando o vocabulário necessário para contar de mim (a maioridade de que eu nunca usei, mais enfim). Fiz algumas aulas em Skype e participei em várias conversas online. Enquanto isso eu acabei com Assimil e continuei um pouco de tudo- um pouco de Anki aqui, algumas semanas de GLOSS lá. Agora estou a um certo nível, vamos dizer B1+, em que não tenho grandes dificuldades em conversar. Mesmo assim sinto muito uma falta de vocabulário, não tenho muita experiéncia em escrever, e não domino as muitas expressões que se usa no Brasil ni em Portugal. Comecei ha uns mêses a pôr mais énfase no português de Portugal, e me decepcionei pela facildade (kkk) de entender o sotaque em sim e as poucas diferencas na gramática. Só que o vocabulário é outra coisa ainda! No momento estudo principalmente com fontes nativas- blogs como Hoje é um Bom Dia, podcasts como Provo Oral e Café Brasil, shows no youtube como O Mundo Segundo os Brasileiros e muito twitter. O outro dia eu peguei por acaso meu Assimil da estante me fique surpreendido da quantidade de matéria que ainda não conheço a fundo. De qualquer jeito, eu vou tentar a escrever mais nestes dois mêses- espero que vá me ajudar nas outras áreas linguísticas. Ficou longo demais, desculpem! Para quem quiser, eu agradeceria qualquer correção, e sempre estou em busca de novos podcasts, blogs, shows... Obrigado pela atenção! 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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