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Why people have problems with learning la | ||
Tags: Learning Difficulty | Foreign Languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| rlkolodziej Diglot Newbie Poland Joined 5017 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Spanish | Message 1 of 32 03 March 2011 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I just wonder why so many people struggle with learning languages.I think everybody has similar minds and similar potential.Here is my question:What do you think? Why do people have problems with learning languages? Maybe there is some research on why people fail when they try to learn language? What's your opinion? What do you think about it?
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| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5131 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes  Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 2 of 32 03 March 2011 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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It's been said (many times, actually) on the forum, and I agree with it, that the marketing from a lot of these courses give us the impression that we'll be fluent after completing just X course. When we don't achieve what the marketing tells us we should achieve, we tend to get discouraged and quit.
Learning a language well is, in fact, time-consuming and takes effort. I don't believe it's hard, but there really are no shortcuts, in my opinion. R. == Edited by hrhenry on 03 March 2011 at 3:49pm 11 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5382 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 3 of 32 03 March 2011 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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People with a desire to learn a foreign language rarely fail to make progress if they live in an environment where the language is spoken.
People fail either because they refuse to learn, or because they give up due to insufficient exposure or motivation. Sometimes people refuse to learn because of some psychological hang-up. They feel that culturally, their language defines who they are and they feel that learning another language is a betrayal of who they are. Or else they are afraid to become someone else -- especially when that someone else is potentially a member of a culture the person views as inferior. They also refuse to learn when they feel that they will fail. For many people, the fear of failure is insurmountable. If you try to learn a language in a context where the language is not used, you need to devote a huge amount of time to properly expose yourself to the language, and to study the vocabulary and grammar needed to express yourself, especially when opportunities to use that information are so rare that the brain discards it almost as fast as it acquires it. We may all have similar potential, as you say, but we have different motivations, we benefit from different opportunities and we lead different lives. Consider these 2 people: Person A is single, lives in a metropolis and works with folks from different countries. He is able to find both the motivation and the time to learn, and the people to practice with. Person B lives in a small sleepy town, has a spouse and kids, and a job where he speaks to few people. For this person, finding motivation, purpose and an opportunity to practice is infinitely more complex and unpredictable. These people could be twins -- they could even be the same person at different times! -- nevertheless, person B is much more likely to fail. Edited by Arekkusu on 03 March 2011 at 4:04pm 14 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Matheus Senior Member Brazil Joined 5082 days ago 208 posts - 312 votes Speaks: Portuguese* Studies: English, French | Message 4 of 32 03 March 2011 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I also want to know that. I have been learning English since 2003 and I still at an
intermediate level. I can read, listen, but I cannot write or talk at the same rate. I didn't study actively though. I use this forum to read brilliant posts wrote by non- native speakers, most of them write so well. Maybe I should live in an English speaking enviroment to develop my two low skills. Edited by Matheus on 03 March 2011 at 6:04pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| kmart Senior Member Australia Joined 6125 days ago 194 posts - 400 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian | Message 5 of 32 04 March 2011 at 2:35am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I've heard this argument so many times, but where's the scientific evidence? I'm 155 cm tall with poor gross motor skills - yes I could improve my abilities to a certain extent, but I do not have the same potential for world class basketball as a 200 cm tall athlete. While everyone should be encouraged to reach for their dreams and achieve their potential, sometimes we have to accept that we aren't cut out for excellence in a particular field. Do it if you enjoy it, even if you're not very good. But if you've seriously tried and you're still not very good, and it's not making you happy, go find something else that does. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5263 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 6 of 32 04 March 2011 at 4:10am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Matheus, you just need to practice writing and speaking English more- a lot more. It is my opinion that there is just no substitute for practice. In what part of Brazil do you live. Are there many tourists in your area? If so, how about offering to show them around your town for the afternoon for the price of them allowing you to practice your English with them. Also, you should take advantage of skype and email language exchanges or sites like lingq or lenguajero.
Why do people fail at languages. I don't think that there's any one answer. I think there are many reasons. Some reasons are mental or psychological barriers. Some are lack of motivation and effort. Some are lack of proper tools and resources. As kmart said, sadly, some people may not have the intellectual chops. It is my opinion that any reasonably intelligent, educated individual, given the proper motivation, desire, tools, resources and sufficient effort can learn a foreign language. I learnt Spanish growing up in a small southern US town of 6,000. Pre-internet, pre-immigration and pre-telemundo/univisión. We had no bookstores in my town of 6,000 people and I knew nobody who spoke Spanish as a native. I did have a shortwave radio and a desire to learn and practiced every chance I got. After I left high school, the wider world beckoned and I met native speakers. I traveled. I learned and improved. Now I live on a tiny island in the Caribbean, a forgotten backwater of the American empire with only 50,000 people and I'm learning Portuguese. I know two people here who speak the language as natives and an Argentinian who lived in Brazil for 10 years. I have the internet, podcasts, audiobooks, skype, Portuguese novels, Brazilian bossa nova and samba, Portuguese fado and Netflix dvds. I will learn Portuguese because my desire to do so is strong. Someday soon, I will travel to Brazil and when I do- I want to be able to say more than- "Bom dia, tudo bem?" I think, as hrhenry said, that people get duped by the marketing. Growing up as a kid in the rural upper south I loved fishing. I don't know how much money I wasted on fishing lures because of how well they were packaged and glittered. Those lures were designed to catch fishermen, not fish. Language learning systems are analogous- "Blank in 3 Months", "Blank with Ease" and my favorite snake oil- Rosetta Stone: "in your own home with you, sitting there, teaching you the language". I'm not saying that these are bad systems. I'm saying that the marketing raises expectations and promises that most often can't be met as easily and effortlessly as people think they should. There is no "magic bullet" out there. It takes work, effort and desire. You got to want it. People psych themselves out when they hit a rough patch. "Oh, I'll never learn the subjunctive. It's too hard. Why do they do that anyway? I can't roll my r's. Por and para- I don't get it. I'll never get it!" You've got to work. It takes effort, but it can indeed be done. Barry Farber's book "How To Learn Any Language" may be dated but there's a lot of great advice in there. It should be required reading for language learners and I hope that someday someone updates it for the 21st century. Keep up the good work everyone. This piña colada is for all of you who make it happen everyday! Edited by iguanamon on 04 March 2011 at 4:27am 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Matheus Senior Member Brazil Joined 5082 days ago 208 posts - 312 votes Speaks: Portuguese* Studies: English, French | Message 7 of 32 04 March 2011 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Thanks for the advices. As you said before, you already know Spanish, so I think you understand some Portuguese. "Boa sorte na tua jornada para aprender Português!" 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 8 of 32 04 March 2011 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Where's the scientific evidence to the contrary? Most humans are average. Only a vanishing minority of people are exceptionally talented or suffer from medically-verified learning disabilities.
That's an exceptional case. Only a vanishingly small minority of people are professional athletes. A far larger proportion of the world's population learns at least one foreign language. It's a bogus comparison.
Success with a language isn't excellence. To go back to a sporting analogy, finishing a marathon isn't excellence. Anyone without serious physical problems can train up to it over the course of 6 months. Finishing a marathon in championship time is excellence, and very few people can do it. Mastering a foreign language to the point of being able to compose extemporaneous verse of extraordinary beauty is excellence -- learning to talk to someone at a bar about the poor showing of AC Milan in the Champion's League is something anyone can achieve. 7 persons have voted this message useful |
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