Do alphabets need to be so complicated? (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

Do alphabets need to be so complicated?
Tags: Alphabets \| Writing System \| Difficulty
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

115 messages over 15 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 6 ... 14 15 Next >>

BiaHuda
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Message 41 of 115

16 October 2010 at 5:07pm | IP Logged

Qinshi wrote:

IMO every language has its own history and culture infused into it. Not all languages were meant for alphabets. Thus was the case for my mother language - Vietnamese. It was originally written in Chinese characters + characters coined specifically for native words that didn't exist in Chinese. It is now written in a nearly phonetic script. The advantage of switching over from characters to an alphabet was that in a short period of time, the literacy rate grew tremendously. The apparent downside of the current script is that it is by jolly...ugly? Nonetheless, it does its job as a script although there are still a few issues yet to be resolved such as the concurrent use of i/y. Seriously, what other supposedly phonetic script uses three different letters to represent the same consonant just for orthographic reasons? <--- Rhetoric. Ca, că, câ, co, cô, cơ, cu, cư but ke, kê, ki, ky. Then there is qua, quă-, quâ-, que, quê, qui etc... In standard northern Vietnamese (based on the local dialect of Hanoi), c-k-q are the same sound. In the other regions, qu- becomes w-.

To a very very rural southern Vietnamese person, all the following sounds would be pronounced almost exactly the same.

dẩn, dẫn, dẩng, dẫng, dẳn, dẵn, dẳng, dẵng, giẩn, giẫn, giẩng, giẫng, giẳn, giẵn, giẳng, giẵng, vẩn, vẫn, vẩng, vẫng, vẳn, vẵn, vẳng, vẵng...

Note in the south of Vietnam, the initials written as d- gi- and v- all become /j/ in colloquial speech. The very common name Dũng is sometimes changed into Dzung in anglophone countries for obvious reasons! Then there are two common surnames: Dương and Vương which are pronounced the same in everyday speech.

I am glad you posted this. There is good reason that Chữ Nôm was replaced with Chữ Quốc Ngữ, and it isn't cultural entirely. Compare the literacy rate of the two countries China and Vietnam. China number two super power 73% literacy, Việt Nam down the list somewher around 15th 94%. No Brainer in my opinion. Mandarin is an elitist language that will eventually go the way of the old Manchurian that is the basis for the Việt Sino relationship everyone talks about.

Edited by BiaHuda on 16 October 2010 at 5:32pm
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BiaHuda
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Message 42 of 115

16 October 2010 at 5:11pm | IP Logged

Qinshi

Have you ever met a Mr Đung?
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fireflies
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Message 43 of 115

16 October 2010 at 6:15pm | IP Logged

Linc wrote:

I didn't deny that the characters are more difficult and complicated. But I meant people have adapted to it and useed it in a more efficient way.

I was just espousing the importance of being able to write on paper. I feel the same way about digital books; they are not efficient at all if the power were to go off.

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lichtrausch
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Message 45 of 115

16 October 2010 at 6:44pm | IP Logged

BiaHuda wrote:

Mandarin is an elitist language that will eventually go the way of the
old Manchurian that is the basis for the Việt Sino relationship everyone talks
about.

Mandarin is spoken from north to south, from Heilongjiang to Sichuan, by something like
800 million people as a mother language. It's not going anywhere anytime soon.
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BiaHuda
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Message 46 of 115

16 October 2010 at 6:46pm | IP Logged

paranday wrote:

BiaHuda wrote:

Brainer. How about Hong Kong and Taiwan with their (tongue-in-cheek) easier traditional characters? Moreover, China surpasses Vietnam on the United Nations list. (Take all such lists with a grain of salt.)

Fair enough but I live in one of these countries and worked extensively in both. Hand a blueprint to a citizen of either country in his/her native languge and see who works it out first? I put my money on the Việnamese.
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BiaHuda
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Message 47 of 115

16 October 2010 at 6:59pm | IP Logged

Hong Kong and Taiwan aside, English has been used there for nearly 2 centuries and the educational standard in much higher than Mainland China..

Edited by BiaHuda on 16 October 2010 at 7:06pm
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BiaHuda
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Message 48 of 115

16 October 2010 at 7:05pm | IP Logged

lichtrausch wrote:

BiaHuda wrote:

Mandarin is an elitist language that will eventually go the way of the
old Manchurian that is the basis for the Việt Sino relationship everyone talks
about.

Mandarin is spoken from north to south, from Heilongjiang to Sichuan, by something like
800 million people as a mother language. It's not going anywhere anytime soon.

So what? It doesnt make writing in Mandarin a good idea. I would be very surprized BTW if 8000000000 Chinese actually spoke Mandarin on a daily basis. There are 50 dialects in China about as mutually intelligeble as French and Italian.

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