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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4766 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes  Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 505 of 668 20 August 2014 at 4:13am | IP Logged |
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My wife and I "always" talk about some subjects in Tagalog, and others in English. I don't really know why.
About immersion, living in country, and formal studying. I was at about B1 when I stopped active study of Tagalog. I continued to live in the Philippines for several more years and married a Filipina. 28 years later, my Tagalog drags along at B1 because I never get out of my comfort zone, and I don't work at it. I listen to hours of Tagalog TV everyday, a variety of shows, and however good my comprehension is, it never transfers into speech. So much for "living the language" being some sort of magic way to get to C1. I should certainly be able to talk like a Filipino Telenovela star by now if input is all you need. My experience with Samoan also supports the need to work. After training at the start of Peace Corps, I was at about A1. I was told I would learn "rapidly through immersion" when I got out to my village. Three months later in the village, full of 24 hour a day "incomprehensible input", I was getting nowhere. I was lonely, desperate, and isolated. I started to study, I got a tutor, and I started memorizing words I didn't know from the newspaper (every single word to begin with). I was B1 in a matter of weeks, C1 at the end of the first year (9 months after I started studying), and C2 after two years. Those scores are from actual FSI (ILR) tests. During that time I lived a version of the type of studying and immersion that James was talking about. I lived in a 100% Samoan environment. I studied, including a ton of drilling and memorizing, several hours every day. My language growth was explosive. My experience completely supports what you folks have been saying. We'll see in a few weeks/months if I also support what you folks have been saying about FSI courses :-) edited to fix my usual careless typos. Edited by sfuqua on 20 August 2014 at 4:15am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| James29 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5376 days ago 1265 posts - 2113 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 506 of 668 23 August 2014 at 1:06pm | IP Logged |
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Thank you for your post, Steve. I find it very interesting. I am particularly interested in your experience with Tagalog. I don't mind putting time into studying Spanish and I really do want to get much more advanced. My problem is that I don't have the opportunity to speak with real people very often. My study time is at 5am in the morning. I would be thrilled if I could understand Spanish TV like a native, but in my current life I'm not going to have many chances to "immerse" or get a lot of conversation practice. I worry that no matter how much "studying" I do that my speaking abilities are going to constantly lag. In a strange way I don't actually mind because what is most important to me going forward is my ability to understand natives. My speaking is good enough that I can communicate effectively on basically any subject I need to (although I might have to talk around in circles to avoid certain grammatical constructions or unknown vocabulary). From reading many posts on this site I got the impression that "reading, reading and more reading" would be what I need at this stage, but I was always concerned about advancing my speaking Spanish also. It's too bad there are not real advanced speaking courses... something for training into the C1-ish level.
I am amazed at your advancement in Samoan. That is absolutely incredible. When someone talks about going to a country to learn the language by getting "immersed" they really should read your post... studying hard is a very important/critical part of that. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| James29 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5376 days ago 1265 posts - 2113 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 507 of 668 23 August 2014 at 1:22pm | IP Logged |
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I am going to update my goals for 2014 because I finished El Intermediario today:
Read any 15 books in Spanish. -> 11 done (Anthem, Joven Abogado #1 and #2, Narnia #1, Harry Potter #2, Man, Economy and State, Think and Grow Rich, Cuando Era Puertorriquena, Short Stories in Spanish by New Penguin, Stories From Puerto Rico and El Intermediario). Watch any 100 30 minute TV episodes in Spanish -> COMPLETE (well over 100+ done) Re-read Cassell's Colloquial Spanish -> Probably about on the "R" section, but I forget. Re-read Practice Makes Perfect "Subjunctive Up Close." -> No progress yet. Boy, finishing El Intermediario really feels like a milestone. I'm not much of a fiction reader, but I always liked Grisham's books. I feel proud that I read my first "real" book in Spanish. Sure, I had to cheat a bit and use the parallel translation, but I feel quite honest in saying "I read it in Spanish." It was the first adult book in Spanish which I had not read in English first. By the end of the book I was really only using the translation as a learning tool and as a crutch. I think I could probably have read that book and enjoy it quite well without the translation. I must say that it was not one of Grisham's better books, but it was interesting and I did not mind reading it at all. This week was a pretty tough week for various family and work reasons. I managed to do a bit of Spanish every day, but two days I only listened to VOA Noticias on my way to work and, unfortunately, had to skip my regular morning Spanish time. That's fine every now and then. Meetups are not really on my radar. If things ever settle down I'll try to return, but it is not something I can do right now. I did have a couple good Skype talks. I am finding some new partners that don't mind my difficult demands in terms of when I can talk. Actually, I am not "difficult" I just basically cannot talk at very convenient times. I have been consistently doing the VOA noticias broadcast. I switched from "Desde Washington" to the other half hour show they have on their site, perhaps it is called "Buenos Dias America"? Anyway, I kind of like it better because it is more based on the US news than the international news. Also, it seems like there is a better variety of speakers. I tried really focusing hard on listening and concentrating on each word. I like that. I don't know what I'll do next in Spanish. Maybe Harry Potter 3. I must say that I find Harry Potter harder than most people on this site. I think that is likely because I have never read it in English and I don't know the story at all. I've got stacks of books lined up just waiting to be read. I have a few more Grisham books and I also have a few more Dan Brown books. I really feel that I should read a few more "easier" type books. I find things so much more enjoyable if I can forget I am reading in Spanish. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Lorren Senior Member United States brookelorren.com/blo Joined 4252 days ago 286 posts - 324 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Danish, Irish Studies: Russian | Message 508 of 668 24 August 2014 at 7:46am | IP Logged |
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Congratulations on reading El Intermediario! Reading Divergente, I know that it helps that I'm familiar with the story in English... it makes it much easier to understand what's going on.
I think that I'm going to try Buenos Dias America once I go through the Notes In Spanish Series (finishing up Intermediate, the doing Advanced and Gold). Is it available in podcast form? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| James29 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5376 days ago 1265 posts - 2113 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 509 of 668 24 August 2014 at 3:14pm | IP Logged |
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Yes, go to voanoticias.com and go to the "menu de audios." Those are all very easy to access in podcast. The site looks different on my phone so I cannot post a link here. I'd recommend to try out the different podcasts. They are all slightly different. Some are short and some are 30 minutes. I didn't really realize there were different shows at first and listened to "desde Washington" at first, but I now like the other one a little bit more. Frankly, there are not really that different, but the Buenos dias America simply seems more comfortable.
Well, I have Harry Potter 3 here with me now and am going to start in on it. I am really hoping I see a noticeable improvement from my comprehension of Harry Potter 2. That will tell me that my reading over the last few months has really made a difference. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| James29 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5376 days ago 1265 posts - 2113 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 510 of 668 31 August 2014 at 2:38pm | IP Logged |
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OK, it is time to update the log for the week. I started Harry Potter 3. I listen to the audio book and follow along. The narrator speaks fairly slow and with a moderate Spanish accent. I must say that I am quite disappointed with my comprehension. I read a chapter summary in English after every chapter. I understand the general thrust of what is going on, but I obviously miss many of the details.
I used to think listening to the audio and following along with the text would be the best thing to do, but now I am of the opinion that it would be better for me to be reading without the audio. I think I would understand things much better. My hunch is that I can understand this book, but just not at the same pace as the audio. I forgot to bring the book home with me this weekend so today and yesterday I watched episodes of Caso Cerrado. This show is definitely a good thing for me to be doing in terms of listening. It really is great for so many reasons. The episodes are fairly short. There are all types of Latin American accents. The plots are all quite unique and "interesting" if you know what I mean. Most of the time I understand the episodes very well. Every now and then when there is someone who uses a ton of slang or a very strong regional accent I have a problem. Sometimes there is a situation in the show when there is a major loop thrown into the plot that I cannot follow... but I usually figure it out. Also, there are often one liners that people throw out or major insults that get a rise out of the audience and I don't understand why. I note that I have a problem watching just one case. I usually have to stay tuned in for the second case of the day. I've been thinking a lot of what I'll do when I finish my goals for 2014. I am going to do a major grammar push and try to bump up my grammar a bit. I have been collecting resources and doing research. One thing I really wonder about is why in the heck nobody on this forum talks about the amazing mono-lingual resources (all Spanish) that are available for learning Spanish (and presumably other languages). Iguanamon has already recommended Gramatica de Uso del Espanol. I bought the B1/B2 book some time ago and have been looking at it. It looks absolutely amazing. I also have the C1/C2 book which looks just as good, but obviously more advanced. There is a beginner version for people with no experience. The books by the Prisma publisher. are amazing too. They have complete courses for every level and numerous specialized courses. I bought their course on Espanol en el ambito juridico and it is very thorough and interesting. I also have one of their other courses. It is amazing how many resources they have. Also, someone in another thread posted briefly about the suena books by Anaya ELE. Again, these are extremely thorough resources available from absolutely beginner through C2 level. I picked up the B2 and C1 versions of their Suena books and they look very good. They are designed a bit for in class use, but it appears as there is no reason at all that they could not very effectively be used for self-study. The resources are incredibly comprehensive and they have numerous supplemental books like exercises, audios, graded readers, etc. There is a youtube reviewer who has reviewed many of these Suena books. Reviewing the advanced resources out there by these publishers makes me realize how much more I really need to learn/practice with the more advanced grammar. It could take me forever to work through all this stuff so I need to pick my courses carefully. When I was at the bookstore the other day I leafed through the PMP pronouns and prepositions course. It looked like it was probably a bit to easy for me (I could almost always answer all the exercise questions correctly) but I do think I need a lot of work/practice on those things right now. I am contemplating going through that book first. I'd also definitely like to go through the Gramatica de Uso book fairly soon as it looks perfect for what I need. I had a couple nice Skype talks with a new partner. I really need to find more time for that sort of thing. I have been totally skipping meetups. It is just not possible to fit that into my day anymore. By the end of the day I am so totally exhausted that I don't feel like going to a meetup. Edit: I have continued with my great habit of listening to the news in Spanish every morning for 20 minutes on my way to work. I am listening to Buenos Dias America on voanoticias.com Well, I may update more later. Edited by James29 on 31 August 2014 at 3:19pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5023 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 511 of 668 01 September 2014 at 12:19am | IP Logged |
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I'm glad you mentioned those monolingual resources James. I seem to remember reading good things about the El Cronometro book for the C1 level by the prisma publisher. It looks fantastic. They all look far superior to the PMP books.
I can definitely envision myself working through some of these courses in the near future. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4829 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 512 of 668 06 September 2014 at 5:02am | IP Logged |
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@James29: Is part of the problem, perhaps, that the translation is not particularly close
to the original? (Harry Potter). i.e. not a very literal translation. I do sometimes wonder if Harry Potter is always the best choice for language learners. Even in English, the language is a little strange sometimes. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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