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Korean Grammar | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| chappu Newbie Canada Joined 5271 days ago 8 posts - 11 votes Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 1 of 7 02 July 2010 at 2:14am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I am having many issues with 이,그,저 (demonstrative)+NOUN. I do not understand how to use the this and that, and when to do so. I am also having troubles when a 은/는 가/이 is needed, and the difference between topic and subject. I am just pretty lost, grammar-wise :( Help please
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| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6766 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 2 of 7 02 July 2010 at 2:52am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I'm only a beginner in Korean, but as far as I know, you have to use 는 or 가 when the noun it's attached to ends in a vowel sound, and you use 은 or 이 when the noun ends with a consonant (pachim). Because of the rules of pachim, this consonant sound gets carried over to the beginning of the 은 or 이.
In Japanese (and I think Korean is the same), the topic is what it sounds like — it's the general thing you're talking about. It has no particular relation to the verb. It could be the subject, the direct object, or something else. But the subject is the main agent carrying out the action of the verb. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| ericspinelli Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5781 days ago 249 posts - 493 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Italian | Message 3 of 7 02 July 2010 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
From what I can tell, は and 은/는, が and 가/이 are pretty close, but they aren't the same. One book I have says the following:
As for 는/은 in general, the same book has this to say:
PS-Firefox is giving me 化け文字 and Chrome is 100% no good, but I think you can figure it out with romaji. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5533 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 4 of 7 02 July 2010 at 10:15pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
In general: 이 = "this" = close to speaker 그 = "that" = close to listener (or at least nearby) 저 = "that over there" = not close to either person (possibly even out of sight) (From what I've read, Japanese has these same 3 concepts of location, as well.)
Eric's answer covered 은/는 pretty well, in my opinion, however one thing to note is that it can also be used to show contrast with what is "normal" for that scenario. Example: 오늘 예뻐요. = You look pretty today. 오늘은 예뻐요. = You look pretty today. The difference? Since "today" is emphasized in the second sentence, there is some implication that *normally* that person doesn't look pretty, but *today* she does. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6766 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 5 of 7 03 July 2010 at 5:24am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
That's pretty much how Japanese works too (marking the topic for contrast). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| crafedog Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5816 days ago 166 posts - 337 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Korean, Tok Pisin, French | Message 6 of 7 03 July 2010 at 10:43am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Warp3's explanation of 이,그,저 is all you'll need. In conversation simply consider where is the object you're talking about? Is it in reach, nearby or in another room/far away etc?
Captain Haddock's explanation on the general use of 은/는 and 가/이 is also very good. Overall with 은/는 and 가/이 there can be lots of things to consider. One can be for changing the topic or specifying/putting emphasis on something. Other times you have to use 은/는 when talking about a specific situation ("In the 20th century,..." "In certain countries,...") or when changing the subject in a -면 sentence for example. When you want to use the 있다 verb the difference can complicate it slightly and let's not forget adjectives. Sometimes you have to use them differently when you introduce/mention something for the first time and then refer back to it (like in English "A man walks into a bar. The man says...". There are many, many reasons for the difference in certain situations. I wouldn't worry about them until you're at a much, much higher level and just keep Haddock's explanation in mind. It's like a Korean/Japanese/Russian learner of English getting concerned about the difference between "the bus" and "a bus". It's not that important at most levels and when you have the language ability to care about that issue, you'll probably know it by heart/from experience anyway. I've heard that 은/는 and 가/이 is one of the most linguistically debated parts of Korean with whole books dedicated to the debate (in Korean of course). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Dixon Groupie Canada Joined 6049 days ago 54 posts - 74 votes Speaks: English* | Message 7 of 7 03 July 2010 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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In my personal experience, after finishing the longer Pimsleur course on Korean I felt
very comfortable with the issues you're having. For me, they became automatic. I had read the grammar rules before doing that course but actually practicing with Pimsleur made things just sound right or not for me. You'll probably be able to use them correctly based on feeling after finishing. You might need some tweaking after the course by listening to how a lot of Koreans use them though. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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