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Indonesian Vs Malay | ||
Tags: Malay | Indonesian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| ruskivyetr Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5484 days ago 769 posts - 962 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Polish, Modern Hebrew | Message 1 of 10 28 March 2010 at 7:08pm | IP Logged |
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I just had a few questions about Indonesian and Malay. I know that Indonesian is a standardized version of Malay,
however there is also a standard version of Malay that is the official language of Singapore and Malaysia. What are the differences? Are they mutually intelligible? Which one is more spoken? If I spoke Indonesian and went to Singapore or Malaysia, would I be understood and be able to understand those who spoke it there? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Fat-tony Nonaglot Senior Member United Kingdom jiahubooks.co.uk Joined 6143 days ago 288 posts - 441 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian, Esperanto, Thai, Laotian, Urdu, Swedish, French Studies: Mandarin, Indonesian, Arabic (Written), Armenian, Pali, Burmese | Message 2 of 10 29 March 2010 at 1:06pm | IP Logged |
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To a foreigner the two are pretty much the same with some differences in vocabulary.
Personally for simple numerical reasons I have tried to stick to Indonesian but I also have TY Malay. So often native speakers will point out that a certain phrase is Malay rather than Indonesian, although they will understand. However for a native speaker reading "native" materials there are quite marked differences in idiom which seldom obscure the meaning but can make it unpleasant to read. I've read on this forum that Indonesian speakers will complain that reading Malay will give them a headache! My advice, for what it's worth, would be to stick rigidly to one form of the language (if possible) and as and when you reach the upper-intermediate stage you can start to look at the differences. The issue is that if you need to be able to feel what sounds natural before you are able to feel the subtle differences between the two varieties. For a language as remote from English as Bahasa I/M that can take some time. Of course if you just looking to be understood while travelling rather than trying to pass as an educated native then you could learn the additional vocab at an earlier stage (like I did!). 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| kosongbebas Diglot Newbie Indonesia Joined 5521 days ago 8 posts - 70 votes Speaks: Indonesian*, English Studies: Spanish | Message 3 of 10 30 March 2010 at 6:11pm | IP Logged |
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Based on my point of view as an Indonesian, I can understand about 70% of Malay. For a note, there is a Malay television series (For children) running in Indonesian TV Station and a subtitled in Indonesia is used.
When I was in Singapore, I often used English, however I can speak and understand Malay speaker there. Some Indonesians go to Singaporean hospitals, in the worst case they can use Indonesian to speak with the doctor's aide (often there are 1 or 2 aides in each clinic who can speak Malay). About using Indonesian in Malaysia, my sister, when she went to Malaysia, preferred to use English than Indonesian. She can deliver her thought more clearly to Malaysian there using her English. On the other hand, there are lots of Indonesian working in Malaysia, often only speak Indonesian or with their own local language (Javanese, Sundanese, Malay (not the standardized), etc). (As a side note: Most of them are illegal worker, so there are lots of sweeping by Malaysian Police. The treatment is not nice, and that is another reason she prefers not to speak Indonesian there). What are the differences? The vocabulary, and a minor grammar (a prefix if I am not mistaken). Based on my ear, I think Malay has a little "melody" (Sorry, I don't know the right word. Accent?) (but when I hear the audio of Pimsleur, and Linguaphone (Indonesian Course), I feel similar "melody"). Perhaps it is the EYD Indonesian (official version not colloquial). I don't feel the "melody" in TV. Are they mutually intelligible? 70% I think, the difficulty is in the meaning. Although most of Malay vocabulary is there in Indonesian (I think I know about 80-90% words from the series (the one that I mentioned earlier)), they often have different meaning (false friend), at that point I need to see the content. I think the official version of both language is more mutually intelligible, since I feels that I am better at reading Malay Newspaper than watching Malay TV. Which one is more spoken? To make it simple, Indonesia is the fourth most populated country in the world. As there are lots of languages in Indonesia, Indonesian is the only way to communicate between us. If I spoke Indonesian and went to Singapore or Malaysia, would I be understood and be able to understand those who spoke it there? Based on my experience yes, for daily things you can used it. But I think your English will be as (more?) useful there especially in Singapore. PS: Sorry for any mistake, since I am still learning, I hope for your understanding. Edited by kosongbebas on 30 March 2010 at 6:13pm 16 persons have voted this message useful | |
| andee Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 7080 days ago 681 posts - 724 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Korean, French | Message 4 of 10 03 April 2010 at 9:19am | IP Logged |
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Good summary from kosongbebas :)
I'd like to add a few things that may be of interest and from the non-native perspective. - I find Malay to be a little slower than Indonesian, and as I started with Indonesian it proved to be somewhat easy to go the other way. - I'd favour Indonesian over Malay as your starting point. Not only because of the larger population, but also because English is widely spoken in Singapore and the larger cities of Malaysia. Also, while people in Indonesia may speak a local language in addition to Indonesian, the many ethnic Chinese in Malaysia and Singapore and reluctant (or incapable?) to use Malay. In short, more opportunity to use Indonesian than Malay. - You may find some vocabulary similar in Indonesian to European languages due to the Dutch influence, but sometimes these words in Malay are the traditional Malay words. Edited by andee on 03 April 2010 at 9:24am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Monox D. I-Fly Senior Member Indonesia monoxdifly.iopc.us Joined 5138 days ago 762 posts - 664 votes Speaks: Indonesian* | Message 5 of 10 08 August 2014 at 4:26pm | IP Logged |
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Some Indonesian said that Malay language is hilarious. I used to think like that, too. However after I started to know how several Kanji letters are formed, Malay language seemed tolerable for me. And let's not talk about Arabic, it's even worse than Kanji forming.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 6064 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 6 of 10 09 August 2014 at 3:03am | IP Logged |
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This post has two parts:
1. On-topic: The other day I followed a link to an Indonesian webpage. Arriving there, my Google toolbar kindly informed me that the page was in Malay, and asked whether I wanted it translated. Curiously enough, I tried this twice in the last ten minutes, and the first time, it recognised the page as Indonesian, and the second as Malay. Interesting. 2. Off-topic: I'm the leader of a team where we are interested in learning rare languages (rare in the forum, not necessarily in the world at large). We have in the team a couple of members learning Indonesian. If a native speaker would like to volunteer to help (we call them "godfathers" or "godmothers"), it would be appreciated (and it does not take much of your time). If you have questions, you can PM me. Thanks in advance. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 7 of 10 09 August 2014 at 1:39pm | IP Logged |
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I visited Sarawak and Kuala Lumpur some time ago, and there I bought a dictionary and I tried also to get some books about science and nature - but I had not much luck finding such books. Apparently these themes are covered by books in English. I did however find a free guidebook to Singapura in a (supposedly) Malaysian and an English version, which I intended to use for my language learning. However it turned out that it wasn't in Malaysian at all, but in Indonesian (luckily I once bought Tuttle's Indonesian-English dictionary in Manila several years ago, just for fun). And when I discovered how much more material I could find on the web in Indonesian I switched to that language, leaving Bahasa Melayu for later.
As for the differences: I would say that it is possible to understand most of a written text (I have so far not listened to much Malaysian speech), and the difference between the two languages is comparable to that between the Scandinavian languages: not something that goes automatically, but easily within reach. One curious detail is that some texts - including some parts of my guide to Singapura - in Indonesian contain a fair number of words which I only can find in my Malaysian dictionary. And probably there also are authors who use words from regional languages, but I can't know for sure without dictionaries for the relevant languages. I have - just for fun - tried to let Google translate translate some Indonesian texts into Malayan, and that gives a fairly good impression of the amount of differences between the two. And occasionally it also gives the occasion for a good laugh (or lament), as when references to Djakarta routinely are changed into Kuala Lumpur. Edited by Iversen on 17 August 2014 at 7:19pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4671 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 8 of 10 09 August 2014 at 9:45pm | IP Logged |
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I find formal Indonesian clearer sounding than formal Malaysian (which sounds more ''muffled'', final a's get pronounced as schwas more easily in Malaysian, and unstressed e's are more readily clipped/silent in formal Malaysian regardless of talking pace).
as for nomenclature: It shouldn't be Indonesian vs Malay but Indonesian vs Malaysian, both Indonesian and Malaysian are standardized forms of Malay. Vocabulary-wise Indonesian is more loan-friendly than Malaysian, therefore for foreigners technical Indonesian is easier to read than technical Malaysian. To many Indonesians, technical Malaysian would look funny or folksy because less educated (or more folksy) synonyms are preferred in formal Malaysian. Edited by Medulin on 09 August 2014 at 9:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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