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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes  20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 89 of 99 13 October 2006 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
Not at all. The original quote that you posted leads one to believe that replacing "Persian" in English with "Farsi" is another Western conspiracy to completely sever the links of modern Iranians with their ancient past. I also interpreted the quote as implying that Islam is not part of this "real face of the Iranian people", (see the quote's author mentioning "Persian Empire", "Persian cats", "Persian carpets", etc.) We know that this is not the case and it sounds similar to arguments made by nationalists of other nations who gloss over or ignore certain bits of history, while trumpeting others. It sounds as if he/she wanted to emphasize the martial and cultural dominance of the old empires, thus reminding people that at one time, the Persian empires were once feared and respected... In any case, a person's biological and cultural heritage are not clear-cut and those of any ethnic group that is constantly intermarrying, emigrating, incorporating other peoples etc. are even less so. As such, I don't really see the problem in considering the whole picture, and putting Islam alongside the pre-Islamic past in the heritage of modern Iranians. Calling modern Islamic citizens of Iran as the cultural kin of the citizens of the old Achamenid and Parthian empires is a little off for me given the changes that have happened in the last 2000 years. By no means is this unique to Persia and Iran. It's hard to justify calling the citizens of modern Tunisia to be direct cultural kin of the citizens of the Carthaginian Empire (and hence inheritors of the vast amount of territory that was under Carthage's control) I think that I've said enough on this thread so I'll stop here. It's amazing how much a debate can stir the mind (and sometimes the blood ;-)) even though in this case I am not studying the language or culture. Edited by Chung on 13 October 2006 at 3:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Alijsh Tetraglot Senior Member Iran jahanshiri.ir/ Joined 6622 days ago 149 posts - 167 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Persian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: German, Italian | Message 90 of 99 14 October 2006 at 1:23am | IP Logged | |||||
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As I wrote in an earlier post, I just quoted the views of some other Iranians who live abroad. I wish I hadn't done it to see their view being somewhat generalized to all Iranians. Just the starting post is my opinion on "Persian or Farsi". Persoanally, I'm sure it has nothing to do with politics or else. No Western-Eastern country or people has brought Farsi to English or other languages, alone. But mostly, Iraninas that natively call their language Farsi not Persian/Persan/Persa/Persich/etc.
So no conspiracy and such and such. Here I admit it was wrong to quote such opinions that belong only to some people that like to attach everything to politics. However, such people are found in any country. Here I like to quote what Ardaschir has wrote at [Specific Languages : Persian (Farsi) overview] that's also the only opinion of many people on this issue:
Likewise, If we say Persian is correct it's not because we are against Arabs, Islam, interested in pre-Islamic history etc. Iran is live history. We have still many places in Iran where people speak very closely to the era of Parthian and Sasanian Empires. We even have regions whose lifestyle, clothing etc. is like those times. So Iran's pre-Islamic civilization has not died to need using such methods to revive it. You think by accepting Islam we became Arab so that we need now to become Iranian again? If you think so, no, you're wrong. We melted Islam in our rich culture. We have distinct personality. "Persian Empire", "Persian cats", "Persian carpets" follows "Persian language". Its original author wanted to say that it's just like saying, "Farsi Empire, Farsi cats, Farsi carpets". If despite of reading Ardaschir's post, you don't still understand why Persian is correct then I can't do otherwise as well. Call it whichever you like. I don't see any reason to particpate in further discuss.
How romantic! You think we now sit and cry or kill ourselves. Of course, not. Edited by Alijsh on 14 October 2006 at 10:27am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6943 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 91 of 99 14 October 2006 at 10:30am | IP Logged | |||||
Alijsh, Ardaschir´s arguments are identical to the "linguistic" portion of the ones you had already sited. Both you and Ardaschir being heavily into languages makes you forget that most people do not do a linguistic study to choose the word to use, so their idea of what´s "correct" is different - for them "correct" is what they hear used around them. In the sense of "correctness" based on usage, "Español" is not an English word and "Farsi" is. This may not be logical, but languages are never fully logical - there are exceptions to most rules, and that´s part of what makes languages fun anyway. Edited by frenkeld on 14 October 2006 at 2:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| AML Senior Member United States Joined 6825 days ago 323 posts - 426 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: Modern Hebrew, German, Spanish | Message 92 of 99 14 October 2006 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
Looks like we have the Iranian version of Sinfonia. Let's see how long this lasts. Carry on! =) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7015 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 93 of 99 14 October 2006 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
Maybe he just emigrated... ;-) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7376 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 94 of 99 15 October 2006 at 12:32am | IP Logged | |||||
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Gentlemen, please refrain from personal attacks on this forum or your accounts will be deleted. Thank you.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sir Nigel Senior Member United States Joined 7104 days ago 1126 posts - 1102 votes 2 sounds | Message 95 of 99 15 October 2006 at 1:10am | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm so glad to find this thread (well mostly the first few posts) as I only heard the word Farsi a couple of months ago. No I'm not living in a box, but considering I don't know much about the Persian language it was quite news for me to hear of this "Farsi".
Not even my spell-checker recognised the word Farsi! Edited by Sir Nigel on 15 October 2006 at 1:17am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Pizquita Tetraglot Newbie Spain Joined 6617 days ago 13 posts - 14 votes Speaks: Spanish*, French, English, Italian Studies: Persian | Message 96 of 99 28 October 2006 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I can't believe what some of Spanish people started to say Farsi because of the recent Iranian immigrants in my country who don't know Spanish yet. So Farsi is English, and is Spanish as well? No.
Firstly, we have to look the word Farsi in Persian dictionary then find what does mean in other languages which are never display this word Farsi but Persa, Persian, Persiano, etc. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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