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Do dialects count as ’languages’? | ||
Tags: Language Politics | Dialect | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| fanatic Octoglot Senior Member Australia speedmathematics.com Joined 7152 days ago 1152 posts - 1818 votes  Speaks: English*, German, French, Afrikaans, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Dutch Studies: Swedish, Norwegian, Polish, Modern Hebrew, Malay, Mandarin, Esperanto | Message 1 of 27 25 May 2005 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | ||
This has been debated on other forums on this site. What makes a language a different language to another? If I speak Australian I am understood in Canada and America. Sometimes I will have to explain a word in use in Australia and sometimes a word in Australia will have a different meaning elsewhere. For instance, when I was visiting the Surrey School Board in Vancouver, Canada, they took delight in telling me that one of their staff was "crook." In Australia, we use "crook" to mean sick or ill. It has a quite different meaning elsewhere. But when I lived in Germany, we lived in a small village in Bavaria with its own dialect. Germans visiting from the north couldn't understand a word and I had to interpret. The language was not intelligible to outsiders. The swabian (Schwaebisch) dialect could have been Chinese for me and my German collegues from the north. We couldn't understand a word. But, the language has the same structure as high German. How can you say someone is speaking the same language as you if you can't understand a word? Platt Deutsch is similar to Dutch, but it is regarded only as a dialect of German but Dutch is regarded as a different language. Certainly, the differences in German are much greater than the variations in English between England, America, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand. On the other hand, I have trouble understanding many Scots and Irish. I don't think you can say that you speak extra languages because you understand the dialects, but where do they begin and end? Edited by administrator on 27 May 2005 at 12:11am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Raistlin Majere Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Spain uciprotour-cycling.c Joined 7158 days ago 455 posts - 424 votes 7 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish*, Catalan*, FrenchA1, Italian, German Studies: Swedish | Message 2 of 27 26 May 2005 at 2:54am | IP Logged | ||
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That depends: Fanatic, what kind of differences are there between Schwäbisch and High German? Are they merely differences in vocabulary and pronunciation, or do they also affect grammar? And, how big is the difference in both kinds of written German?
If it's just vocabulary and pronunciation, Schwäbisch shuuld be regarded as just a dialect of German. On the other hand, if differences are really present in grammar too, then perhaps they are different languages. However, I must agree with ElComadreja; that's cheating. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| fanatic Octoglot Senior Member Australia speedmathematics.com Joined 7152 days ago 1152 posts - 1818 votes Speaks: English*, German, French, Afrikaans, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Dutch Studies: Swedish, Norwegian, Polish, Modern Hebrew, Malay, Mandarin, Esperanto | Message 3 of 27 26 May 2005 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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Maybe a better analogy would be with German and Yiddish. We have radio programs in Yiddish in Melbourne and if you understand German, you can understand much of the Yiddish. In fact, it depends on who is speaking and what they are speaking about as to whether you will understand it. The grammar is different to High German and the alphabet is the same as Hebrew so the written languages are quite different. They are regarded as separate languages, but Yiddish is possibly easier to understand for the average German than some German dialects.
Just a note. I have read and downloaded many of the stories from the Polyglot section. They have inspired me, and inspired me to learn even more languages and to put in even more effort. It is one of my favourite sections of the forum. Thank you for including it. Edited by fanatic on 27 May 2005 at 5:50am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ennime Tetraglot Senior Member South Africa universityofbrokengl Joined 5910 days ago 397 posts - 507 votes Speaks: English, Dutch*, Esperanto, Afrikaans Studies: Xhosa, French, Korean, Portuguese, Zulu | Message 5 of 27 02 May 2009 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think politics play a part in it (I don't mean politics as political discussion
banned here on the forum), for example in Belgium the Flemish community does not recognize any regional languages, they are just considered dialects and have no official status, considering the already complicated situation with a trilingual country that has serious issues with it's different language communities that is no surprise (Wallonie on the other hand does recognize several regional languages) I was talking to someone from Indonesia a while back about the difference of Bahasa Indonesia and Melayu, officially considered different languages politically but the difference is less big than between some Chinese "dialects" which are not mutually intelligible at all. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Tyr Senior Member Sweden Joined 5788 days ago 316 posts - 384 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Swedish | Message 6 of 27 02 May 2009 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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Languages are quite unfair on us English speakers vs. Scandinavians.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ennime Tetraglot Senior Member South Africa universityofbrokengl Joined 5910 days ago 397 posts - 507 votes Speaks: English, Dutch*, Esperanto, Afrikaans Studies: Xhosa, French, Korean, Portuguese, Zulu | Message 7 of 27 02 May 2009 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | ||
how do you mean? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Earle Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6321 days ago 276 posts - 276 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Norwegian, Spanish | Message 8 of 27 02 May 2009 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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Can't believe this oft-resurrected topic has proceeded thus far without anyone stating "A language is a dialect with an army and navy." Of course, that's not strictly true, but it could be modified to "A language is a dialect with political clout." All definitions of "language" vs. "dialect" are, of necessity, muddy. All this said, I agree with the original poster that the relative uniformity of the English language, spread across the world with native speakers, is a bit mystifying when compared with, for example, German dialects from the North Sea to Bavaria. And, once again addressed to the OP, I probably have less trouble with the Irish and Scots accents than he. Of course, in my area of the USA, the largest section of the telephone book begins with "Mc." :)
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