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About ’Flemish’ language | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Witproduct Triglot Newbie Belgium Joined 5681 days ago 19 posts - 20 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: French | Message 1 of 64 08 May 2009 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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Greetings,
While registering I had to point out the languages I know to speak. Among these languages I noticed Flemish being mentioned as a separate language from Dutch. This is a misunderstanding often kept straight by francophones and the catholic francophile fanatics of the 19th century. The language you call Flemish is actually Belgian Dutch. It's no separate language and never was (in modern times). This is a 19th century lie that's been taken care of long ago (the end of that century). We speak Dutch, not Flemish. It's VERY insulting to label this a separate language. It's like calling Belgian French Walloon, which is obviously isn't (it's a separate oïl language next to Belgian French). While Flemish is a term often used for modern Belgian Dutch, it also has a more linguistically accurate meaning. Historically it's the language/dialect spoken in the Medieval Flemish region (West Flanders, East Flanders, French Flanders and Zeelandic Flanders). Other dialects spoken in the modern day Flemish community are Brabantian (Antwerp province, Brussels and Flemish Brabant; the most influentual dialect that is dominant in Belgian Dutch) and Limburgish. The Dutch we speak actually differs just as much or even less from Northern Dutch as Austrian German differs from German German. Needles to say this is old belgicist propaganda used to separate us from the Dutch, no Flemish actually calls his language such. I know most people don't have ill meanings with this, but be aware that Flemish nearly all agree their language is Dutch. You're showing ignorance about our region by still calling it a separate language. Be aware of what lies you believe. Edited by Witproduct on 09 May 2009 at 12:38am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Witproduct Triglot Newbie Belgium Joined 5681 days ago 19 posts - 20 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: French | Message 2 of 64 08 May 2009 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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One thing I'd like to add. Brabant and parts of modern-day Limburg became part of Flanders under Burgundian role. This region (and a part of Limburg) which is now known by the name of Flanders, is being influenced by Brabantian more than any other language. It may seem confusing when I refer myself as Flemish, keep in mind this is just a modern meaning.
The province I live in (Antwerp) actually has nothing to do with the real Flanders you can still see in the historical Flemish provinces. It's just an example of a part pro toto meaning like we call the whole Dutch state Holland, while it's actually a union between Holland, North Brabant, some Low-Saxon provinces, a part of Limburg and Friesland. Edited by Witproduct on 08 May 2009 at 8:53pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Witproduct Triglot Newbie Belgium Joined 5681 days ago 19 posts - 20 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: French | Message 3 of 64 09 May 2009 at 12:37am | IP Logged | ||
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whoops I wanted to edit a post. Edited by Witproduct on 09 May 2009 at 12:39am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| minus273 Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5767 days ago 288 posts - 346 votes  Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Ancient Greek, Tibetan | Message 4 of 64 09 May 2009 at 1:03am | IP Logged | ||
Austrian High German from German High German, as there are also Austrian German dialects and Germany German dialects, like the real Flemish dialects supplanted by Brabant. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ennime Tetraglot Senior Member South Africa universityofbrokengl Joined 5906 days ago 397 posts - 507 votes Speaks: English, Dutch*, Esperanto, Afrikaans Studies: Xhosa, French, Korean, Portuguese, Zulu | Message 5 of 64 09 May 2009 at 7:31am | IP Logged | ||
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Well... West-Flemish is considered a distinct regional language according to some
linguists, and so is French Flemish (spoken in small region south of Flanders in nowadays France). But I agree "Flemish" as is spoken officially in contemporary Flanders is not a language, it's Belgian Dutch, it's not even a coherent group of dialects if you look at the differences between West-Flemish and even dialects in East-Flanders. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Vinbelgium Bilingual Tetraglot Groupie Belgium Joined 5826 days ago 61 posts - 73 votes Speaks: Dutch*, Flemish*, English, French Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 6 of 64 09 May 2009 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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Flemish is completely different from the Dutch spoken in Holland. I think you could
say it's a different language, like some people say American is a seperate language. I can speak Dutch like a native, but I do have trouble to understand a person from The Netherlands. They speak way too fast, and use a different range of vocabulary. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Recht Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5803 days ago 241 posts - 270 votes Speaks: English*, GermanB1 | Message 7 of 64 09 May 2009 at 11:09pm | IP Logged | ||
But as an American, I would never say I speak a separate language. If I'm reading the post of a person from Britain or South Africa or Australia, I can almost never tell that they're not American. The only tip-offs would be spelling words with a "u" i.e. "harbour", or referring to vacation as "holiday". These are really very small differences. Even if we were to set the most rural/city British English against the most rural/city American English, the two are mutually intelligible usually in speaking, and always in writing. For these reasons, I don't think there are two separate languages, and not even separate dialects, aside from pronunciation. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5900 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes Speaks: French*, Dutch, German | Message 8 of 64 10 May 2009 at 12:12am | IP Logged | ||
This is absolutley not the fault of francophones!!! How can it be the fault of the francophones, which names you've for *your* language? We've the same name for the language of Flanders and of The Netherlands. How about the lie that wallonia's "The french Community"? This is a misunderstanding by flemish? Dutch = Flemish when you refer the standards but West Flemish's not very similar I think, and for exmaple Afirkaans is easier to udnertsand if you speak Standaard nederlands. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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