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Why are numbers so hard? | ||
Tags: Number System | Difficulty | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| ElComadreja Senior Member Philippines bibletranslatio Joined 7236 days ago 683 posts - 757 votes  2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Latin, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew, Cebuano, French, Tagalog | Message 1 of 51 27 February 2005 at 10:22pm | IP Logged |
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It is just me? In any language that I have studied I learn 1-10 quite easily and then can never seem to learn the other numbers very well. Still true in my pet Spanish. Is there some right/left brain conflict going on here?
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| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7374 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 51 28 February 2005 at 12:31am | IP Logged |
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I have always found learning numbers in a new language challenging. Now if you practice it will finally come to you.
The best exercise I recall was sitting in a room with a lot of people with one plastic ball. You would throw a person of your choice the ball. When he/she receives it, he has to yell a number in the target language calculated as the number you just said plus 3. Very fun and efficient game! If you do not like the numbers in Spanish, think of numbers in French or Russian. These are really bad. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| victor Tetraglot Moderator United States Joined 7316 days ago 1098 posts - 1056 votes 6 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, FrenchC1, Mandarin Studies: Spanish Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 51 28 February 2005 at 5:15pm | IP Logged |
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A bad habit I'm still having is that for numbers after 100, say, 175, when "cent soixante-quinze", my brain has to do these mathematical sentences:
cent - 100 + soixante - sixty + quinze - fifteen =175 By the time that's done, it would have taken me 5 or 6 seconds. I haven't had a lot of time to practice numbers, but I really like that idea, Francois. I also did a game before called "Pamplemousse", sometimes known as "Buzz" in English. A number is set, let's say, 7, then any number that is a multiple of 7 or has 7 in it (e.g. 14, 21, 17, 27), you have to say "pamplemousse" or you're out. Quite challenging to have it over 50. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Raistlin Majere Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Spain uciprotour-cycling.c Joined 7150 days ago 455 posts - 424 votes 7 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish*, Catalan*, FrenchA1, Italian, German Studies: Swedish | Message 4 of 51 10 May 2005 at 9:01am | IP Logged |
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I think numbers are more difficult because they're one of the parts of language that differ more from one tongue to another. Almost every language has its own numeral particularity; French with the "quatre-vingt" multiplication, German which counts the units before the tens (57=Siebenundfünfzig/Literally, sevenandfifty), etc.
Don't worry, ElComadreja, I have lived all my life in Spain, yet I have to think for a fraction of a second before saying the ordinal numbers (quinquagésimo, septuagésimo...), it doesn't come out natural for me. And most Spanish people don't even know how to use the ordinal numbers. So, you're not that bad with Spanish numbers at all! ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7374 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 5 of 51 10 May 2005 at 9:17am | IP Logged |
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German numbers are a real pain. If we had to rate the logical character of numbers in natural languages, I would say:
Logical : English, Spanish, Italian, Russian, Swiss-French Not very logical: French and German. Are there number systems that are more weird than the French and German ones? I am sure there is, perhaps Ardaschir can tell us. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| lola Groupie Joined 7150 days ago 63 posts - 65 votes | Message 6 of 51 10 May 2005 at 9:34am | IP Logged |
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I may be a little off topic, but I would guess there must be a language in
India that counts in a very odd way. I'm basing this on the fact that many westerners may have been shown how to count using their fingers, which means a decimal system (don't remember if this is the proper term). However, I have an indian friend who uses the three parts of each finger, using the thumb on the same hand to count, making it a 12 number system. I don't know how they go about this but I was very confused. I'd love to hear more about it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Bart Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 7158 days ago 155 posts - 159 votes Speaks: Dutch*, French, English Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese, Swedish | Message 7 of 51 10 May 2005 at 3:08pm | IP Logged |
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The chinese derived Japanese numbers are really easy, for example 15 is said as 'ten-five', whilst 50 is said als 'five-ten'
It's really one of the most logical numeral systems I've encountered, but for no apparent reason they also have their own Japanese numbers for counting from 1 to 10 that are being used under certain circumstances Edited by Bart on 10 May 2005 at 3:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7254 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 8 of 51 10 May 2005 at 8:36pm | IP Logged |
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I take comfort in the common difficulty of number systems as indicating that I am not the only human being who has difficulty counting!
Of counting systems in European languages that have not yet been mentioned, Danish has a very odd and confusing way of composing 50, 60, 70, 80, and 90. I don't find Russian numbers themselves hard, but their employ is illogical, requiring one declension with 1, another with 2-4, and a third with 5+. Arabic numbers are awful. The old TYS introduced them by calling them the nightmare of a bankrupt financier, and the new TYS introduces time-telling by explaining that the formal and official way is so difficult that most Arabs themselves do not understand or use it. Arabic requires the use of feminine numbers with masculine words and vice versa. Arabic is written from right to left, but numbers are written from left to right. The one's, like those in German and older Germanic languages, are said before the ten's. Korean has two sets of numbers, native and Chinese. Both are perfectly logical in themselves, but you cannot use them interchangeably. When enumerating something, some words take one set, others the other. More than that, you have to use "counting words," e.g., you cannot say "5 books" or "6 cats" or "7 pencils," you have to say "book 5 volumes," "cat 6 animals," or "pencil 7 long-thin-things." Furthermore, 10,000 is used as a basic unit of reading, just as 1, 10, 100, and 1000, which takes a lot of getting used to (more than my decade of immersion). However, Hindi has the most difficult basic number system of my acquaintance because you basically have to learn 1-99 as individual numbers, i.e., the two components of a number such as 75 bear little resemblance either to seventy or to five. 8 persons have voted this message useful |
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