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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6703 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 33 of 40 25 April 2014 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hmm, what do the colours mean? And in particular, why does Öland have three colours? And personally, what features did the dialect from the northern part of Gotland have in common with the other purple area?
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| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4315 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 34 of 40 25 April 2014 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | ||
Grön: -ed (hused, taged) Röd: -(e)t (hust/huset, taket) Gul: -e (huse, take/tatje) Blå: -Ø med tvåtoppsaccent (huus, taak) Lila: -i (husi, taki) Orange: -eð (auseð, tatjeð) (Ja, det är älvdalska+våmhusmål) Grå: Traditionell svensk dialekt saknas 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tristano Tetraglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 3841 days ago 905 posts - 1262 votes Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: Dutch | Message 35 of 40 26 April 2014 at 10:31am | IP Logged | ||
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Hi, I'm Italian and I'm surprised about some things you wrote about Italian language.
- for someone is not completely phonetical, why? as far as I know, Italian is read how is written. You mean the sounds GN and GL maybe? It is in any case completely regular, they are pronounced always in that way. - in my 32 years of life I never heard before the concept of "vowel length". And I speak quite correctly anyway :D For what I know every vowel has the same length, and I'm not aware of words which a vowel is doubled (like happens in Dutch all the time, for example). Anyway, can you make me some example? - the stress is almost all the time on the penultimate syllable like andare, fare, casa, pasto, bastone, recinzione ("parola piana"). When it is in the last there is always an accent like citta', caffe', caucciu' ("parola tronca" - ok I put an apostrophe because I have the us keyboard layout, who cares :D read below). The stress on thirdultimate syllable is less used and in some cases follows patterns, like for example every words ending with -metro is stressed in this way, like kilometro, barometro, manometro, millimetro... same with -litro, like centilitro, ettolitro etc ("parola sdrucciola"). The last case is when a word is stressed on the fourthultimate syllable ("parola bisdrucciola"). It is very rare and I'm not aware of many words that are stressed in this way... maybe some verb (abitano (they live) with the stress on the first a, diamoglielo (let's give it to him/her/them - them only in colloquial speech), with the stress on the a. - closed and open e, closed and open o. Nobody knows and nobody cares (at school they teach that there are five vowels, a e i o u). With some ecception, like singers (not all), and in general people that works with the voice (some universitary teacher, actors etc). In some reason people use almost only closed e, like in Lombardy but with variations in some city and open o, some others use only open e (stereotypical in the south). Sardinia is famous to use almost only closed o, that makes the speech stereotypical and funny for who lives "in the continent". One day in a singing lesson my teacher at the time taught me some diction: I was schocked. Anyway there are words that Italians simply don't know in which way are stressed so usually the choice is to mark it as "piana" or "sdrucciola". An interesting word is "ancora", that changes meaning if stressed on the penultimate syllable ("still", or "yet") or on the thirdultimate ("anchor"). - as a consequence of that, people generally don't know if a word stressed in the last syllable needs an accent "grave" or "acuto" - nor know about those terms and remember which is one and which is the other. Therefore is commonly used a different accent that is a rounded accent that starts high, goes down and goes up again in a symmetric fashion, that doesn't say anything about how the letter is pronounced but simply means "watch out bro: the word is stressed on this letter". This accent is put on the last letter only, doesn't make any sense in the middle of the world. I don't know how this accent is called, it is normally simply called "accent". - people that corrects other people on this is constantly marked as excessively "pignoli", while people that corrects other people on the finest details of the grammar are called "grammar nazi" :D - in case a foreign word is imported the word is pronounced theoretically as it is pronounced in its mothertongue (actually in "how the Italians think that has to be pronounced), and it is used only in its singular forms and gets never pluralized (it is a grammar rule I think) even when indicating multiple objects. I probably forgot something that I wanted to say, in case I will add it. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tristano Tetraglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 3841 days ago 905 posts - 1262 votes Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: Dutch | Message 36 of 40 26 April 2014 at 10:36am | IP Logged | ||
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after having said that, I find the french pronunciation much easier than the English one.
No one is phonetic, but french is almost regular while English is almost completely random (at least, for me). English, to add the insult to the injury, has something like 18 vowels written with only 5 letters, and voiced and mute 'h' that seems to be completely random as well, making people messing up with the grammar rule of a/an before a voiced/mute h. even Dutch seems to me easier to learn correctly. Edited by tristano on 26 April 2014 at 10:43am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6391 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 37 of 40 26 April 2014 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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You can always predict how Italian words are written, but the reverse is not 100% true (although Italian is still a good language in this regard). But for example the stress is only marked if it's on the last syllable, otherwise it's often on the second-to-last but far from always. Well, it's not such a major problem for me because I'm familiar with Latin. Also, gia/cia normally have a silent i but not always. And s/z can be voiced and voiceless.
Oh and while writing the first sentence I forgot about the double consonants. They're just pronounced less clearly than for example in Finnish, and there's a lot of individual variation afaiu. As for the vowels... it can be misleading how they teach them at school etc. Also, while opened/closed is not something many people can notice consciously, you may sound off due to them. Edited by Serpent on 26 April 2014 at 9:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4462 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 38 of 40 26 April 2014 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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This is true, for foreigners it's not obvious ROMA has a close o (ó) while MORTO has an open O (ò).
Italian has 7 vowel phonemes (even in most dialects, even though their distribution may be different than the Tuscan standard), pronouncing them with 5 vowels is a recipe how to sound foreign. You can easily hear the Italian accent when Italians speak/sing in Spanish because they keep their 7 vowel system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2zXAzAr_pk from this song (produced in Italy)> tierra (with an open iè), pareces (with an open è), tienes (with an open iè, typically Roman/Tuscan :p), siempre (with an open iè, typically Roman/Tuscan :p), miedo (with an open iè, very Tuscan/Roman :p): miedo /mjɛdo/ [mjædo] sounds hilarious in Spanish (extremely open realizations of è /ɛ / and ó /ɔ/ are characteristics of the posh female Roman accent> bène [bbæne], mórto [mmɒɾto], singer Syria talks like this: .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU4E32PMMZw). Edited by Medulin on 26 April 2014 at 11:27pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4459 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 39 of 40 27 April 2014 at 12:01am | IP Logged | ||
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Eh, while Italians often pronounce Spanish a little bit funny they are still much closer to getting it right from the very start than people coming from other languages. :-)
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| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4462 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 40 of 40 27 April 2014 at 12:07am | IP Logged | ||
I don't know. To my ears Italians always sound as if they were studying Argentine Spanish even though they learn Peninsular Spanish instead ;) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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