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Achieving Native Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| janalisa Triglot Senior Member France janafadness.com/blog Joined 6686 days ago 284 posts - 466 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Japanese Studies: Russian, Norwegian | Message 25 of 32 31 July 2010 at 10:02am | IP Logged | ||
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Some people mentioned wanting to see Khatzumoto actually speaking Japanese, so I thought I'd let you know he has a video up on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejRkuX1RGf4 This guy is definitely the real deal. @@; Quite impressive. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Kazen Diglot Groupie Japan japanese-me.com Joined 5124 days ago 96 posts - 133 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese | Message 26 of 32 31 July 2010 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | ||
How about working as a bartender, or even a barista? Your coworkers will probably be talkative and interesting - striking up conversation is a part of the job, after all! ^_^ Edited by Kazen on 31 July 2010 at 12:51pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| GREGORG4000 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5319 days ago 307 posts - 479 votes Speaks: English*, Finnish Studies: Japanese, Korean, Amharic, French | Message 27 of 32 31 July 2010 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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Definitely reading. I remember constantly not recognizing English words when I was 7-8, and that problem only was solved once I started reading a lot.
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| RealGodiva Diglot Newbie Canada Joined 5027 days ago 8 posts - 12 votes Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2 | Message 28 of 32 02 August 2010 at 3:14am | IP Logged | ||
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Kazen, thanks for the idea!
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| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5226 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 29 of 32 02 August 2010 at 8:01am | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with pretty much all that has been said on the blog so far, especially of course with the contributions of FancescoP and the stalwart Iversen. The advice given is very good, but I think there is something missing.
Much of the discussion has focused on techniques or methods to improve one's proficiency (a term I prefer to fluency but I won't fight over it). In my opinion, however, anything remotely close to native-like proficiency comes only with extensive immersion in the language through a combination of studying, working, living and having personal relationships in the language. All the highly proficient foreign-language speakers that I have met have all lived in the language at some point. Those African immigrants in Italy, Spain, Britain, or elsewhere will spontaneously become more fluent than most people who study the language formally forever, albeit probably in a very limited linguistic register. That's because they simply have to speak the language to survive and they observe the usage around them. I'm always amazed how most people can pick up a language naturally when they are placed in the right situation. The problem for most of us is that we don't have access to those effective learning conditions. Most of us cannot go work, study or live in another country for six months. And what about taking leave of the current spouse in exchange for a language "coach" in the target language? All of this to say that the real challenge for those who want to take their language skills to the highest level is to create, recreate or find those immersion-like conditions that are conducive to learning the real everyday language. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| hypersport Senior Member United States Joined 5677 days ago 216 posts - 307 votes Studies: Spanish | Message 30 of 32 02 August 2010 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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s_allard I agree. In my case living in the states I've immersed myself quite a bit in Spanish and it's gotten me very close I think without having left the country yet. I keep podcasts in my ear all day during work, watch a lot of Spanish tv and movies and I also have opportunities almost every day to speak with Mexicans who don't speak English. All of it rubs off.
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| RealGodiva Diglot Newbie Canada Joined 5027 days ago 8 posts - 12 votes Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2 | Message 31 of 32 03 August 2010 at 3:27am | IP Logged | ||
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S allard, I agree with you in general - living in the country of the language you study CAN be effective. Depends on what you actually do there. "to speak the language to survive" and "to take the language skills to the highest level" are 2 different stories.
Yes, you will communicate freely and without any thinking in the shops, restaurants, banks etc in several months. But this is not the highest level. Suppose you're having dinner with a highly educated person and want to speak on the same intellectual and linguistic level as she or he?.. The level you are actually on, in your native language? So, just living in the country of the language is not a salvation by itself. There must be some additional efforts. Reading, of course goes without saying. Probably volunteering in different areas.. I am also thinking of taking some English course for native speakers at a University. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5226 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 32 of 32 03 August 2010 at 3:47am | IP Logged | ||
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RealGodiva, I don't agree with the concept of level in terms of a vertical hierarchy. I prefer the term register which simply denotes a form of writing or speaking that is considered appropriate for the occasion.
That said, I would agree that simply living in a country does not guarantee the ability to communicate in a very sophisticated manner I do think that immersion, in its various forms that I mentioned earlier, is necessary to achieve a high level of speaking fluency. You are quite right when it comes to sophisticated and technical communication. That requires a special effort. Again, preferably, in the context of immersion. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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