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Traditional and Simplified Chinese

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OneEye
Diglot
Senior Member
Japan
Joined 6857 days ago

518 posts - 784 votes 
Speaks: English*, Mandarin
Studies: Japanese, Taiwanese, German, French

 
 Message 65 of 80
17 September 2009 at 8:37pm | IP Logged 
Hencke wrote:
But you mustn't forget to factor in that it takes lot more effort to learn traditional in the first place.


According to whom?
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jimbo
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Canada
Joined 6301 days ago

469 posts - 642 votes 
Speaks: English*, Mandarin, Korean, French
Studies: Japanese, Latin

 
 Message 66 of 80
17 September 2009 at 10:34pm | IP Logged 
Me has to learn wrote:
As I understand the matter simplified means fewer strokes. That means simplified
characters enhances the readability on computer screens. Characters with many strokes tend to blur at normal
size.


Ha,ha. Funny. I had not thought about that. This is LESS of a problem on a computer because you can adjust the
font size.

I carried a magnifying glass and a dictionary around all the time my first year here. Ah, what a pain it was to look
the characters up in a dictionary. Now all I have to do is write them on my iPod screen with my finger...
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OneEye
Diglot
Senior Member
Japan
Joined 6857 days ago

518 posts - 784 votes 
Speaks: English*, Mandarin
Studies: Japanese, Taiwanese, German, French

 
 Message 67 of 80
17 September 2009 at 10:53pm | IP Logged 
I agree, it is quite easy to adjust the font size. The Tong Wen Tang add-on for Firefox has this function, in addition to converting a webpage from simplified to traditional and vice versa with one click.
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Z.J.J
Senior Member
China
Joined 5615 days ago

243 posts - 305 votes 
Speaks: Mandarin*

 
 Message 68 of 80
18 September 2009 at 5:51am | IP Logged 
munkala wrote:
Regarding simplification. I always wondered why some characters like 於 was changed to 于. The original is simple enough. Why change it to something that does not resemble the original at all? And why are some high count stroke characters not simplified? It seems the governing body in charge of simplification were not using common sense.

Well, that's also the crux of the problem, mainly because the simplification was officially orientated as an interim strategy of Chinese writing system (the simplifying method was picking the characters that have fewer strokes as standard style, for example, 于 is simpler than 於 after all), instead of a permanent policy "once and for all", actually the ultimate goal was to realize latinization or cyrillization completely, but the absurd plan almost came to nothing after a long-term research, and soon the 2nd round of simplified characters were promptly abolished, so, some complex characters had no opportunities to be optimized reasonably through so-called 3rd and 4th round of simplification, and this is the reason why I always called simplifying project an unfinished building of inferior quality, yes, the governing body in charge of simplification should've been responsible for the historical tragedy.


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Z.J.J
Senior Member
China
Joined 5615 days ago

243 posts - 305 votes 
Speaks: Mandarin*

 
 Message 69 of 80
18 September 2009 at 6:12am | IP Logged 
Me has to learn wrote:
Z.J.J: Your postings are very interesting. However there is an advantage of simplified characters.As I understand the matter simplified means fewer strokes. That means simplified characters enhances the readability on computer screens. Characters with many strokes tend to blur at normal size.

Thanks. Perhaps the problem of readability might be basically resolved by enlarging the size and choosing the font 「新細明體」(PMingLiu)while visiting the websites or reading the posts of traditional characters. In fact, some complex simplified characters have this problem too, if the font isn't large enough.


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Z.J.J
Senior Member
China
Joined 5615 days ago

243 posts - 305 votes 
Speaks: Mandarin*

 
 Message 70 of 80
18 September 2009 at 7:12am | IP Logged 
Hencke wrote:
I agree about the readability on computer screens. I have mentioned it a few times in these discussions, and I find it quite important from a practical point of view and a clear point in favour of simplified. I am surprised that it generally isn't brought up more often.

In China, there's an idiom called 「削足適履」, it means "cut the feet to fit the shoes", if the shoes aren't very suitable for somebody's feet, he/she won't cut his/her feet to fit the shoes. If some characters don't perform well on screen, we should improve the readability with the help of developing computer technology, and it's believed that science and technology were born to service for the people. Besides 新細明體/新细明体, on the whole, the fonts of "Microsoft JhengHei", "Microsoft YaHei", "Mac LiHei Pro" aren't inclined to be blurred, either. Just have a try.


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minus273
Triglot
Senior Member
France
Joined 5772 days ago

288 posts - 346 votes 
Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French
Studies: Ancient Greek, Tibetan

 
 Message 71 of 80
18 September 2009 at 9:30am | IP Logged 
Z.J.J wrote:
In fact, I don't fully understand why 人 must be written as 儂 in Minnanese, formally, 人 is the correct original character while 儂 informally means "person" too in Minnanese, and it also means "I" (as well as "you" in modern style) in Wunese. No matter how it should be pronounced (文讀 or 白讀), the written form is always supposed to use original characters that can express their meanings accurately. For example, in Cantonese, (佢俾本書我), if you know what 渠 & 畀 exactly mean in classical Chinese, you won't choose the borrowed homophone 佢 & 俾 any more, and probably will turn to write (渠畀本書我).

Yes, for the Canto example. But 渠 holds etymologically, while 人 does not. Characters with the same rhyme of 人 usually end up in written Taiwanese as ...in,not ...ang; and for the initial, j.., not l....
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Z.J.J
Senior Member
China
Joined 5615 days ago

243 posts - 305 votes 
Speaks: Mandarin*

 
 Message 72 of 80
18 September 2009 at 9:51am | IP Logged 
If I remember rightly, in karaoke bars, the characters「什儂」(who) of Minnanese lyrics are more frequently written as「誰人」(siáⁿ-lâng).




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