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Mandarin phonetic difference.when? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| DavidGretzschel Newbie Taiwan Joined 5320 days ago 6 posts - 6 votes | Message 1 of 25 13 December 2009 at 8:07am | IP Logged |
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Mandarin
sheng and feng the eng part sounds different but is written the same at least in Hanyu Pinyin. In Zhuyin its written the same too. when I use eng the sheng way and when do I use eng the feng way? I asked a Taiwanese and she couldn`t tell me why. The ending eng seems to have two variations, and those two variotions are even in Zhuyin not divided into different symbols, so there has to be a rule I don`t know yet. In Zhuyin the ㄥ (eng) seems to be standardly taken for the feng version as to hear in http://www.mdnkids.com/bopomo/ . Thank you for your answers, I would really be pleased to solve that last spelling problem for me. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6705 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 25 13 December 2009 at 1:34pm | IP Logged |
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I'm just about a newbie myself with only four and a half years of studying under my belt. Sometimes it feels like you can advance from "newbie" to "beginner" after about ten years of solid effort :o).
But as far as I understand the pinyin system, it's normal for the same ending to represent different pronunciations depending on what initial sound they follow: the -an part in "dan" and "yan" are very different, and the -i in "shi" and "xi" are different etc. There may be some rules of thumb for this, I don't know either, but mainly it's just a matter of familiarising yourself with the pronunciation for each individual initial/ending-combination. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5332 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 3 of 25 13 December 2009 at 2:14pm | IP Logged |
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I believe that the explanation is that feng is an irregular spelling.
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| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6579 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 4 of 25 13 December 2009 at 3:33pm | IP Logged |
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1. The pinyin system isn't perfect.
2. Retroflex consonants colour the following vowel differently than non-retroflex consonants, but since this is predictable and proscriptive (e.g. you can't have 'sh' followed by the 'i' in 'xi'), there's no need to come up with two separate spellings for those vowels. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5507 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 5 of 25 14 December 2009 at 6:38am | IP Logged |
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In Taiwanese Mandarin, 風 (feng1, ㄈㄥ) is pronounced ("fong1", ㄈㄨㄥ), rhyming with 宋 (song4, ㄙㄨㄥˋ). In the Putonghua standard, 風 (feng1, ㄈㄥ) is indeed pronounced (feng1, ㄈㄥ), rhyming with (sheng1, ㄕㄥ). That is all that's happening here.
Edit: As Gusutafu said, this is an irregular variant. To my knowledge it is unrelated to any orthographic or phonological issues. Edited by egill on 14 December 2009 at 6:41am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| DavidGretzschel Newbie Taiwan Joined 5320 days ago 6 posts - 6 votes | Message 6 of 25 14 December 2009 at 10:32am | IP Logged |
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thank you guys for the answers
@egill that`s not a taiwanese thing (spelling is the same as I described in Putonghua as you can hear hear at this page if you just enter the syllable, don`t bother the german http://dict.leo.org/chde?lang=de&lp=chde&search= &n bsp; ) though it must be an irregular. @hencke the y is a substitute for the i. Because in pinyin a word is not allowed to start with the i symbol (whyever that is). So there is no -an sound in yan. This is an -ian sound like in lian . Forgot to mention that the founders of Hanyu Pinyin apparently didn`t like the idea of an u-umlaut (with dots) standing alone. So the y is the substitute for the dots too. @captain The i`s in shi, si, chi, ci, zi, zhi are not vowels. They are just part of the sibilant sound. There is no need to come up with a spelling for the nonexisting i at all. But for westerners it would look weird, that the word is just a sibilant sound with a tone. That`s why hanyu pinyin has it, I suppose. Zhuyin, not made for westerners is without a symbol for this. Edited by DavidGretzschel on 14 December 2009 at 10:55am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| DavidGretzschel Newbie Taiwan Joined 5320 days ago 6 posts - 6 votes | Message 7 of 25 14 December 2009 at 10:39am | IP Logged |
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I know a lot already about the chinese spelling system.
But this fluke really surprised me. I wanna be complete, somebody know a database with all the rules of Hanyu pinyin? A database with all the irregulars (should contain this one)? Are there more, anyway? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5507 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 8 of 25 14 December 2009 at 10:19pm | IP Logged |
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I didn't say it was spelled differently, I'm saying that Taiwanese people (and a lot of other speakers of Mandarin variants, particularly southern) pronounce it as if it were. I certainly do. Although I do see how my sentence may have implied a parallelism that is not there.
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