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Estonian/Finnish/Hungarian "cheat sheet"

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Hencke
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 Message 9 of 19
30 March 2010 at 10:48pm | IP Logged 
Chung wrote:
"kytkeä" from what I learned means "to attach" (the header of the entry in quotation marks) in addition, "to connect", "to couple", "to turn on" etc.

You need to be a little careful with this, as "attach" has so many uses in English, eg. you can be emotionally attached, attach yourself to a movement, attach a label by sewing it on, attach a jpg-file to an e-mail, or attach special significance to something or other.

"Kytkeä" wouldn't do in any of those meanings.

For "attach" in general there are other alternatives that are better: words like "liittää" and "kiinnittää" come to mind.

But "kytkeä" does apply when "attach" can be understood as "connect" mechanically, especially with some kind of interlocking mechanism, such as when hooking up railroad cars behind an engine.

I think it's easier to simply think of "kytkeä" as "connect", whether electrically or mechanically. And you have the funny construction "kytkeä irti" (literally "connect loose") for "disconnect" - beautiful isn't it?. Other meanings and uses of the word are fairly unusual.

Edited by Hencke on 30 March 2010 at 10:50pm
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Chung
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 Message 10 of 19
30 March 2010 at 11:06pm | IP Logged 
Hencke wrote:
Chung wrote:
"kytkeä" from what I learned means "to attach" (the header of the entry in quotation marks) in addition, "to connect", "to couple", "to turn on" etc.

You need to be a little careful with this, as "attach" has so many uses in English, eg. you can be emotionally attached, attach yourself to a movement, attach a label by sewing it on, attach a jpg-file to an e-mail, or attach special significance to something or other.

"Kytkeä" wouldn't do in any of those meanings.

For "attach" in general there are other alternatives that are better: words like "liittää" and "kiinnittää" come to mind.

But "kytkeä" does apply when "attach" can be understood as "connect" mechanically, especially with some kind of interlocking mechanism, such as when hooking up railroad cars behind an engine.

I think it's easier to simply think of "kytkeä" as "connect", whether electrically or mechanically. And you have the funny construction "kytkeä irti" (literally "connect loose") for "disconnect" - beautiful isn't it?. Other meanings and uses of the word are fairly unusual.


To make it easier, I've changed that example so that the header is "shackle", "fetter" to match the Estonian word, and then the Finnish and Hungarian cognates have their respective meanings as verbs.
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Al-Irelandi
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 Message 11 of 19
31 March 2010 at 5:43pm | IP Logged 
The way these languages are related despite the geographic difference between them is totally amazing.
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Chung
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 Message 12 of 19
31 March 2010 at 5:54pm | IP Logged 
To be honest, I don't think that it's that amazing. Icelandic has a distant but demonstrable relationship with Bengali, and the geographical distance between native-speaking communities of Icelandic and Bengali is greater than that between Estonian/Finnish and Hungarian.
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Al-Irelandi
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 Message 13 of 19
31 March 2010 at 6:10pm | IP Logged 
Chung wrote:
To be honest, I don't think that it's that amazing. Icelandic has a distant but demonstrable relationship with Bengali, and the geographical distance between native-speaking communities of Icelandic and Bengali is greater than that between Estonian/Finnish and Hungarian.


You win...it's not amazing. I stand corrected.
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Kounotori
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 Message 14 of 19
08 April 2010 at 6:40pm | IP Logged 
Chung wrote:

“We have a big car”
Meillä on suuri auto (Standard Finnish)
Meil on suur auto (Colloquial Finnish)
Meil on suur auto (Estonian)


Wow, your post is really impressive. I can't help making a comment about the part quoted above, however.

"Meil on suur auto" doesn't sound entirely natural Finnish because — while it's true that we'd shorten "meillä" to "meil" — we would never shorten the word "suuri" to "suur".

Suur- already has the meaning of "greater" as in Suur-Suomi, "Greater Finland". While it's possible to pronounce suuri as suur (especially if it's spoken sloppily), the normal colloquial version would rather be "Meil on suuri auto" (the word suuri is also pretty short already and can be pronounced smoothly, so there's no need to shorten it).

Anyhow, may your studies in the Finno-Ugric languages be fruitful. :)
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Chung
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 Message 15 of 19
08 April 2010 at 7:25pm | IP Logged 
Fixed. Thanks, Kounotori.
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Marikki
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 Message 16 of 19
17 April 2010 at 1:19pm | IP Logged 
Kounotori wrote:
Chung wrote:

“We have a big car”
Meillä on suuri auto (Standard Finnish)
Meil on suur auto (Colloquial Finnish)
Meil on suur auto (Estonian)


.....

"Meil on suur auto" doesn't sound entirely natural Finnish because — while it's true that we'd shorten "meillä" to "meil" — we would never shorten the word "suuri" to "suur".

..........


Finland's southwestern dialects are said to have many common features with Estonian. I think southwesteners always say "suur".

http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lounaismurteet

In some other dialects suur is also used. Here is an old saying from Savo: "Ei se savolaesuus synti ou vuan suur häppee" (It is not a sin to be from Savo, only a great shame.)

However I do agree with Kounotori, in general Finnish we wouldn't shorten suuri to suur.

Edited by Marikki on 17 April 2010 at 1:37pm


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