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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Chris Heptaglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6916 days ago 287 posts - 452 votes  Speaks: English*, Russian, Indonesian, French, Malay, Japanese, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Korean, Mongolian | Message 25 of 31 22 May 2010 at 5:29am | IP Logged | |||||
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'This seems like quite a bold claim for a book that has been described as "phrasebooky".'
They aren't "phrasebooky" but the units are based around functional situations. '"Can understand the main ideas of complex text on both concrete and abstract topics, including technical discussions in his/her field of specialisation. Can interact with a degree of fluency and spontaneity that makes regular interaction with native speakers quite possible without strain for either party. Can produce clear, detailed text on a wide range of subjects and explain a viewpoint on a topical issue giving the advantages and disadvantages of various options."' No, that description of B2 is inappropriate for the TY series 1st level books. The more advanced ones might fit that description. They aren't gared towards technical language, but to the sort of situational language you'd find yourself needing on a trip to a country where the language is spoken. They do provide a grammatical base, however, that could serve as a basis for use of more technical vocabulary that you would have to learn separately according to specialism. What I've learned, having read reviews on Amazon, is that you just can't please everyone! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5140 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 26 of 31 22 May 2010 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I wouldn't describe the new Teach Yourself as "phrase books" either. They follow the communicative approach. The problem is, they are very thin on content. An example of a magnificent communicative program would be Optimal from Langenscheidt, but it takes up three textbooks along with three workbooks of a hundred magazine-sized pages each exclusively in German plus three separate German-English glossaries to take you to B1. I'd be extremely skeptical of Teach Yourself's claim to take you all the way to B2 with perhaps one third to one fourth of the content.
Another big problem I have with the series is that, as far as I know, they oftentimes do not teach or fully employ the native script for Asian languages. This makes Teach Yourself of rather limited value for those languages. Edited by Juаn on 22 May 2010 at 5:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5806 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 27 of 31 22 May 2010 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
No they don't -- the Communicative Approach is roughly based on the principle that it doesn't matter what you do as long as you use the target language. More specifically, the Communicative Approach takes traditional classroom methods and carries them out in a target-language-only environment. TY has lots of native language, so it cannot be CA. Besides, CA requires people to communicate with. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5140 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 28 of 31 23 May 2010 at 2:22am | IP Logged | |||||
If it has been technically defined as such, then fine. To me though, "communicative" means being exposed to the language as it is encountered in actual experience and usage, and assimilating it through direct contact rather than explicit grammatical exposition. Thus rather than chapters entitled "Prepositions", "Adjectives" or "Fourth Declension" (like the old TY used to be), we have "Saying Hello", "At the Park", "Friendship", "The Seasons", etc. That it includes English explanations is a trivial distinction; many communicative textbooks like Optimal offer also glossaries with translation, albeit separately. What matters is you're learning the language by example rather than analysis. And if providing "people to communicate with" was a requisite, then no textbook could ever be labeled as following the "communicative approach", as you can't converse with a stack of bound paper. Edited by Juаn on 23 May 2010 at 2:34am 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chris Heptaglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6916 days ago 287 posts - 452 votes Speaks: English*, Russian, Indonesian, French, Malay, Japanese, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Korean, Mongolian | Message 29 of 31 23 May 2010 at 9:24am | IP Logged | |||||
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'Functional' is a better description, I think, for TY courses.
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| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5140 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 30 of 31 23 May 2010 at 8:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's probably a better label than the one I used, though I think we're referring to the same thing (outside specialist distinctions). From Wikipedia: Overview of Communicative language teaching As an extension of the notional-functional syllabus, CLT also places great emphasis on helping students use the target language in a variety of contexts and places great emphasis on learning language functions. Unlike the ALM, its primary focus is on helping learners create meaning rather than helping them develop perfectly grammatical structures ... 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5806 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 31 of 31 23 May 2010 at 9:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's "situational presentation" (all new language presented in a practical real-life context, rather than in purely abstract terms), which is one of the features of the CA, but not unique to the CA.
The only books I've seen that claim to follow the CA are designed for use in a group classroom. Anything that is not designed for the classroom is lying if it claims to be CA as the CA is specifically for medium or large group classes. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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