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Most difficult IE Language?

 Language Learning Forum : General discussion Post Reply
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ChristianVlcek
Bilingual
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Netherlands
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 Message 33 of 69
25 June 2010 at 8:59pm | IP Logged 
liddytime wrote:


Wow!

I don't speak Czech (yet :-) ) but if it is really that complicated, how on earth can native Czechs speak it
flawlessly? ?!?!

Don't you find that foreigners that don't have perfect command of every declension can still be understood?
More or less?



I don't know about Czech, but in Slovak (closely related) there are certain endings that are repeated between different cases. I think that looking at a language based on numbers like case endings and such can be misleading, and tends to make a proverbial mountain out of a mole hill. Moreover, once you get accustomed to the sounds of verbs, nouns and adjectives, you pick up pretty fast what ending goes with which declension pattern.
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Derian
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PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name
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 Message 34 of 69
26 June 2010 at 2:12am | IP Logged 
Splog wrote:
Czech grammar [...]
As an example, nouns have 14 cases (7 singular, 7 plural), plus there are the three genders to think about, then each noun may follow one of a whopping 59 declension patterns.
Hmm...
trance0 wrote:
Czech noun declensions [...]
Polish, Slovak and Sorbian aren`t that much easier, I suspect.
That's correct.

I just looked up the same for Polish:
- 55 noun declension patterns (with 11 exceptions) * 5 genders (each gender uses a different set of patterns)

And I've got one question concerning Czech verbs. Are there also 3 types of verbs as regards their progressiveness?

What I mean is this (in Polish):
1. idę - I'm going (right now)
2. chodzę - I go (generally)
3. chadzam - I go (every now and again)

Not all Polish verbs have seperate forms to express all of the three "tenses". Most do only two:
1. płynę - I'm swimming
2. pływam - I swim (generally)

1. niosę - I'm carrying
2. noszę - I carry

1/2. czytam - I'm reading/I read (generally)
3. czytuję - I read (every now and again)

1/2. mam - I'm having/I have (generally)
3. miewam - I have (every now and again)

Edited by Derian on 26 June 2010 at 2:14am

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Splog
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Czech Republic
anthonylauder.c
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 Message 35 of 69
26 June 2010 at 7:36am | IP Logged 
Derian wrote:

And I've got one question concerning Czech verbs. Are there also 3 types of verbs as regards their progressiveness?

What I mean is this (in Polish):
1. idę - I'm going (right now)
2. chodzę - I go (generally)
3. chadzam - I go (every now and again)

Not all Polish verbs have seperate forms to express all of the three "tenses". Most do only two:


Yes, very similar things exists in Czech (with minor differences of course). For many verbs there are different roots for once, generally, and sporadic. For other verbs there are only two, and for some verbs only one.

Please note, my post wasn't trying to say "Czech is the hardest". Quite the opposite, I was saying Czech has a very simple script but a very complicated grammar, so that different languages are hard in a variety of ways and it also depends where your starting point is.

To give an example, I have (by coincidence) been learning Polish as a secret side project, and my rate of progress is quite fast - but this is because I already have gone through the pain of Czech. Both languages are quite similar in the simplicity of their script and the complexity of their grammar.

Edited by Splog on 26 June 2010 at 7:50am

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Raincrowlee
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 Message 36 of 69
26 June 2010 at 3:43pm | IP Logged 
Splog wrote:
To give an example, I have (by coincidence) been learning Polish as a secret side project, and my rate of progress is quite fast - but this is because I already have gone through the pain of Czech. Both languages are quite similar in the simplicity of their script and the complexity of their grammar.


Since you've been studying both, can you give your opinion on which is harder to learn?
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Euphorion
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 Message 37 of 69
27 June 2010 at 10:13am | IP Logged 
Definitely Czech
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Iversen
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Denmark
berejst.dk
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 Message 38 of 69
27 June 2010 at 1:02pm | IP Logged 
Albanian has been mentioned in this thread. Actually I bought a couple of bilingual city guides plus a dictionary in this language last fall, and I didn't find it too difficult to make sense of the Albanian text. I also shocked a museum employee in Durrës by translating most of an informational plate about the Illyrians at sight, based on a number of international loanwords in the text and some knowledge about the local history. So I can't see why Albanian should be that hard to learn.

Personally I would still settle for a Celtic language like Irish.

Edited by Iversen on 27 June 2010 at 1:09pm

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stelingo
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United Kingdom
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 Message 39 of 69
27 June 2010 at 1:14pm | IP Logged 
Euphorion wrote:
Definitely Czech


In my opinion Polish is harder than Czech. Pronunciation is more difficult, the verbal system is slightly more complex, given that verbs have endings for each person in the past, not to mention the change in roots which occur in some verbs in the virile and non-virile forms. And the number system is also more complex. Numbers change according to whether they refer to nouns which are animate or non animate, virile or non virile and mixed gender.
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Fasulye
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 Message 40 of 69
27 June 2010 at 1:18pm | IP Logged 
exscribere wrote:
It will depend on what your native language is and what similarities it has to any other language.


This is a very important point. For example Russian maybe very difficult to learn for me personally but it's an easy language for speakers of Polish or Czech.

From my backgound of languages Gaelic languages and Slavic languages would be very difficult to learn, whereas Finnish and Hungarian would be easier to learn because I already know quite a dosis of Turkish grammar and I am somewhat familiar with agglutination.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 27 June 2010 at 1:20pm



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