Spanish subjunctive (Specific Languages) Language Learning Forum

Spanish subjunctive
Tags: Verbs/Conjugation \| Spanish
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Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages

11 messages over 2 pages: 1 2

s_allard
Triglot
Senior Member
Canada
Joined 5240 days ago
2704 posts - 5425 votes

Speaks: French*, English, Spanish
Studies: Polish

Message 9 of 11

08 July 2010 at 1:59pm | IP Logged

tractor wrote:

s_allard wrote:

One can say, "si tienes" or "si tengas".

One cannot say "si tengas". In the present tense "si" is always followed by the indacative.

Tractor is totally right here in terms of standard Spanish grammar. But "si tengas" as in "si tengas tiempo" is common in certain areas and varieties of Latin American speech, as a search in Google will reveal. This is probably a form of over-generalization of some perceived rule of using the subjunctive for hypothetical statements, as in "cuando tengas tiempo". If one can argue that there is a nuance between "cuando tienes" and "cuando tengas", there is probably some room for a similar (albeit erroneous for most people) distinction between "si tienes" and "si tengas".
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Javi
Senior Member
Spain
Joined 5791 days ago
419 posts - 548 votes

Speaks: Spanish*

Message 10 of 11

08 July 2010 at 8:36pm | IP Logged

junjo wrote:

I believe its pretty accepted that the Spanish subjunctive is among the
most difficult aspects of the language for non-native speakers to master. I'm still
learning myself and a few times I didn't use it when I should have, although I usually
realize it right after that I "missed" it and should have used it.

But I was wondering just bad it sounds to a native Spanish speaker when someone doesn't
use it. Does it really stand out if someone uses the present tense when they should
have used subjunctive?

I don't think there is anything special about the subjunctive when it comes to misusing
it. It's just an error and I don't think it sounds worse or better than other
grammatical errors. In regard to your worries, try to think about it this way: there is
only one explanation as to why you sometimes fail to choose the subjunctive when you
should, and that is your L1. The patterns of your native language are still stronger
that the ones of your target language, but fortunately that's a transitory state as
long as you keep getting loads of input.

Funnily enough, I reckon that your native language is crucial in this process of
getting rid of its own patters. I'm not a believer in grammatical explanations or
grammatical theory. Instead, I think you can learn a not-too-far-removed FL just using
your NL and your knowledge about your NL in case you have if (most people I know
unfortunately don't). And then there's content. Parallel texts, graded readers,
dictionaries, light grammatical explanations, are all fine but, basically, loads of
input in your target language.

So what's the role of your native language? When dealing with TL content it helps you
spot and focus on the features of your TL that are different or weird, and it also
serves as a default device that allows you to communicate even if you fail to use the
subjunctive when you should.

If I think of how I would go about learning the Spanish subjunctive, I'd use the input
method, sentences, chunks of text and SRS, just like with any other grammatical
feature. I'd try to absorb patterns as they catch my eye without bothering about
general theories. Anyway, if I couldn't resist overthinking a bit, it might be useful
to conceptually divide the sentences into 4 groups (just a first approximation, I'd
refine that on the go):

1) The subjunctive is syntactically required. No other option is possible and that's
all about it:

Quiero que vengas

2) Regional differences:

No se si tendré tiempo (Spain)
No se si tenga tiempo (Mexico)

You'd better accept that language is that complicated and settle for one of them.

3) Both options are possible and the meaning changes completely:

Busco a un hombre que habla español
Busco a un hombre que hable español

4) Like the previous one but now the meaning changes in such as subtle ways that not
even native speakers can always agree on what they are, and more often than not there
are also regional differences involved. I wouldn't worry too much about these.
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Javi
Senior Member
Spain
Joined 5791 days ago
419 posts - 548 votes

Speaks: Spanish*

Message 11 of 11

08 July 2010 at 8:57pm | IP Logged

s_allard wrote:

What is the exact nuance in the following phrase from a salsa song:
"¿Qué tiene ella que no tenga yo?" Why "tenga" and not "tengo"? How big a mistake
would it be to use the latter form? I think that most people wouldn't see any
difference. But I may be wrong. I suspect that there is a lot of variation in the use
of these kinds of subjunctives even amongst native speakers.

¿Qué tiene ella que yo no tengo?

That might be a riddle, especially with the appropriate entonation. I'm thinking of
something that I don't have but she does and I want you to have a guess.

¿Qué tiene ella que yo no tenga?

I suspect that she has something that I lack, typically cause you prefer her over me in
some way, but I've got no idea what might be.

That falls into category 3 above.

Edited by Javi on 08 July 2010 at 9:02pm

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