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Please, proficiency not fluency | ||
Tags: Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| johntm93 Senior Member United States Joined 5115 days ago 587 posts - 746 votes  2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish | Message 9 of 59 12 August 2010 at 9:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Fluency may come from a Latin word meaning "flowing," but it's used to mean one who is "proficient" (can speak flowing, no hesitation) in a language.
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| Derian Triglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5096 days ago 227 posts - 464 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Czech, French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 10 of 59 12 August 2010 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
I think the more direct cognate word is the word "fluid". Interestingly, the Polish word for "fluent/fluently" is "płynny/płynnie", which derives from the noun "płyn" [=fluid]. Edited by Derian on 12 August 2010 at 10:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6731 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 11 of 59 12 August 2010 at 10:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
In Russian, there is an expression "бегло говорить", but this comes from the verb "to run", not from anything to do with liquids. The real question is, what do we do in English? :) "Proficiency" is a good word for the classification scheme, but it is a bit too formal for the discussions. Edited by frenkeld on 12 August 2010 at 10:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| lingoleng Senior Member Germany Joined 5086 days ago 605 posts - 1290 votes | Message 12 of 59 12 August 2010 at 10:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I guess the problem is that morphology and etymology of the word "fluent" are not fully transparent for an average speaker of English. It is derived from Latin "fluere", of course, if via French or not I don't know (without dictionary), and its meaning is not easy to learn, as we see in all the discussions. It is used in contexts where one can easily think it means proficient, and many people learn this as the (wrong) meaning. In German we say "Er spricht f l i e ß e n d (= flowing = fluent) Englisch", and everybody can understand this without using a dictionary, because it is a word of Germanic origin. The word fluent is certainly not equally understandable for a speaker of the English language, and this leads to the confusion.
Edit: I should add that the word "proficient" is certainly just as hard to understand, for similar reasons. Edited by lingoleng on 12 August 2010 at 10:51pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5554 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 13 of 59 12 August 2010 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Point taken.
Yet, I will probably not stop copying the native speakers. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Derian Triglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5096 days ago 227 posts - 464 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Czech, French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 14 of 59 12 August 2010 at 10:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
If we can grade one's proficiency from 1-10, then probably around 7 or 8 fluency would begin. Because fluency signifies a certain (high) degree of proficiency. Therefore, the word 'fluency' is used when one wants to emphesize this high level of proficiency. Whereas "being proficient" in itself doesn't imply that. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6731 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 15 of 59 12 August 2010 at 11:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
The word "fluent" is pretty clear to an English speaker because everyone knows what "fluid" means. Etymology of a word is less important than how it is actually used. The common meaning of language fluency in English is high speaking proficiency or high proficiency in general. All we have here is a disconnect between the popular and the academic use of the word. The word proficiency also has a clear meaning to any educated speaker of English. Edited by frenkeld on 12 August 2010 at 11:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6731 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 16 of 59 12 August 2010 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
Oh, sure, "proficiency" has to be qualified - it can be high or it can be low. The adjective "proficient" does not need to be qualified, "proficient" implies a high level of skill. Fluency implies high proficiency. I was actually going blue in the face for a while about the term "basic fluency" because I see it as an oxymoron - fluency is high proficiency in speaking, and high proficiency cannot be basic. No one listened. I can only wish s_allard greater luck in his quest to alter the habits in this forum. Edited by frenkeld on 12 August 2010 at 11:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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