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My Thoughts On Sentence Mining and others | ||
Tags: Goals | Learning Technique/Method | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 57 of 66 26 August 2010 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Not deliberately, no. My confusion is understandable if you consider that you said that learning words doesn't cure the problem, when clearly it does...
I don't believe brains are that different. Language is an evolved specialisation, unique to humans, so I believe there's more similarity in language learning than others here think.
There's always a path. If you really need a specific piece of language, you need it. But otherwise you can keep learning the language incrementally.
No, I won't leave them be. If someone is discussing it here, I assume that they want to learn a language and they want help and advice. They are free to disregard my advice, but I will continue to give it so they can make the decision for themselves. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 58 of 66 26 August 2010 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
You have set yourself an impossible task. Not only are there far more words in any given language than any native speaker would know, but part of "knowing" a word is knowing how common it is. Common words are recalled much quicker and easier than uncommon words, and this appears to part of how the native speaker derives some of the subtler shades of connotation. By putting these rare words into SRS, you will be overexposing* yourself to them and losing the intended effect. It's an irreconcilable paradox -- how do you learn words if part of "knowing" them is "not knowing" them? * Overexposing = exposing yourself to excess, and to your detriment. Oversimplify = simplify to excess, and to your detriment. Overlearning = learning to excess and to your detriment...? 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| mpete16 Diglot Groupie Germany Joined 5521 days ago 98 posts - 114 votes Speaks: Tagalog, English* Studies: German | Message 59 of 66 26 August 2010 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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All the interesting posts on this thread got me thinking, isn't there a way to take the
best of both worlds? I mean, what if you used sentence mining to aid your passive vocabulary, and do what Benny does, namely go out there and use the language, to transfer words from your passive to your active vocab? When looking at it from this point of view, the SRS is no longer the "heart" of the language learning process, but a passive-vocabulary-acquisition tool. The real "heart" becomes watching TV, and just going out there and using the language. Just a thought. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| feanarosurion Senior Member Canada Joined 5280 days ago 217 posts - 316 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish, Norwegian | Message 60 of 66 26 August 2010 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Well, it's what works for me. It's certainly not to my detriment. I can tell when I'm barely ever going to see a word again. And usually that means it's not in my dictionary so besides a single vocab card I don't bother to do anything else. I still want to be able to recognize that word and know what it means, even if I'm not going to use it. Oh, and I realize that it is an impossible task to learn every single word, but that's just how my learning style works. Especially now that I'm at an intermediate level, and I can pretty much just take words from anywhere, and I can take sentences from anywhere. My goal isn't actually to know every single word, but a 10-20 000 word passive vocab by the end of this process isn't unreasonable I think. But until that happens, and I'm happy with the results, I'll keep looking up and mining every word I come across. I don't think my method will work for everyone. Perhaps I'm the only one this method will ever work for, but it works for me. Your advice doesn't apply to me, in this case. I have considered it, but it doesn't help me. I'm not shoving this method down anyone's throats. I'm just presenting it as an alternative to what has previously been discussed. And, as I previously stated, it works for me. That's the bottom line, and the only real important thing. Edited by feanarosurion on 26 August 2010 at 8:39pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6942 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 61 of 66 26 August 2010 at 9:42pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
I don't know much about the antimoon method, but if one looks at the general idea of focusing on passive skills before speaking, much will depend on how much listening versus reading one does. Reading a hundred novels before doing anything else with the language may be a bit dry, although even that depends on who you ask, but if one dedicates enough time to listening in the passive phase, one will by definition be good for more than just 'reading well'. Edited by frenkeld on 26 August 2010 at 10:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| maydayayday Pentaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5218 days ago 564 posts - 839 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, SpanishB2, FrenchB2 Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Russian, Swedish, Turkish, Polish, Persian, Vietnamese Studies: Urdu | Message 62 of 66 26 August 2010 at 10:53pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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From my not so vast experience the purpose of language is communication.
Even if Goffanfrankenshellish [I do hope that is not a real language somewhere] as a language is hellishly tonal and fricative, but only agglutinive in certain moods and has an indecent amout of plural options and five genders. Kids still learn it. No child at any time starts with a perfect speech pattern but makes an attempt at getting the message across. Example: Scene:Venice. A little restaurant, a few side streets from the 'SUPERYACHT' berths. we got into an Italian conversation with the couple on the next table. He was, to me, typically southern Italian, she was probably German. We prattled on [chatted] for some time and eventually he asked me where in Italy I came from because he was Libyan. His girlfriend was Italian rather than German. The conversation flowed and we all had a good evening. Thats is what language is really about. I cant read Pirandello without thinking of that exceptional evening. My accountant will have the credit card stubs so I can recommend the restaurant! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6942 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 63 of 66 26 August 2010 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Communication can take different forms. When you read Pirandello, it is also an act of communication, from the author to the reader. In the end, how one wants to use a language is a personal preference. Whether a certain learning method is effective or not should be relatively independent of personal preferences. I was just wondering whether a 'silent period', consisting of listening, reading, and studying, may not be a viable study method for some people, with speaking turned on eventually if they feel like it. I personally don't see why a silent period should be an ineffective prelude to active skills, including speaking. Edited by frenkeld on 27 August 2010 at 4:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Deji Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5439 days ago 116 posts - 182 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Hindi, Bengali | Message 64 of 66 15 December 2010 at 6:59am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
So please tell, what do you do with excel, other than of course adding to a list, sorting, deleting etc. ? -I use Works for Bengali and copy it into excel for safekeeping. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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