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Aversion towards grammar? | ||
Tags: Grammar | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| CheeseInsider Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4921 days ago 193 posts - 238 votes  Speaks: English*, Mandarin* Studies: French, German | Message 17 of 37 19 November 2010 at 9:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
Ah yes, I think I feel the same way ^_^ 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6071 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 18 of 37 20 November 2010 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I have at times felt some aversion to grammar. I tend to stress vocabulary learning, which means I often pile up a large vocabulary in L2s, especially passive, but my grammar can be faulty.
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| wilzy Newbie United States Joined 4982 days ago 15 posts - 24 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Turkish | Message 19 of 37 05 December 2010 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
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For me, memorizing charts and doing drills is a tedious form of drudgery (or torture), but when grammar is done as a part of overall comprehesion, I quite like learning it and (revelation - I'm a former language teacher) found that my students liked it too. Grammar is fun when you are allowed to "discover" it and are then given (or make) lots of opportunities to use it in realistic situations.
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| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5810 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 20 of 37 05 December 2010 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I can't say I'm a fan of discovery learning. Either it's uncontrolled (therefore takes too long) or it's planned and it feels like I'm being led by the nose. Most courses that claim to be discovery-based are really still presenting the rules, but just hiding the rules in an example.
It's not a straight choice between discovery on one hand and drills and verb tables on the other -- there's other variables. Michel Thomas taught grammar explicitly, but without a table in sight, and his exercises used broad and varied language, so not what we normally mean by drilling. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| slymie Tetraglot Groupie China Joined 5027 days ago 81 posts - 154 votes Speaks: English, Macedonian Studies: French, Mandarin, Greek Studies: Shanghainese, Uyghur, Russian | Message 21 of 37 08 December 2010 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think learning too much grammar in the beginning is a huge mistake. Its like studying a football rulebook before you have touched a ball or watched a game. A bit is fine as you go along but looking too deep into it will just confuse and fustrate.
The Chinese education system is like that, make the students cram grammar for 2 years before they learn how to pronounce "hello". True story in my Russian class most of my classmates can sit there and draw up a table of all the conjugated variants of a top 150 Russian verb, but then I ask them Как отдохнули на выходных? (how was your weekend?) and they stare at me having no idea how to answer... serious. Edited by slymie on 08 December 2010 at 6:52pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5810 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 22 of 37 08 December 2010 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's a bad analogy. Grammar isn't the rules of the game, it is the game. If vocabulary is a "pass" or a "shot on goal", grammar ties two together, so you can make sentences like "tackle dribble shoot". You cannot practise football without practicing a wide range of the infinite variations and combinations of the grammar of motion of football. A course without grammar is like practicing only set routines of running to a particular place and passing to a particular place and running to a particular place etc etc etc. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5180 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 23 of 37 08 December 2010 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
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To dislike grammar is to ignore the enormous power that comes with it.
A single grammatical fact can be twisted around and used in an infinite number of sentences you couldn't make before. It's like adding a key to your keychain. You never know what door you'll need to open. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| slymie Tetraglot Groupie China Joined 5027 days ago 81 posts - 154 votes Speaks: English, Macedonian Studies: French, Mandarin, Greek Studies: Shanghainese, Uyghur, Russian | Message 24 of 37 08 December 2010 at 9:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
I still think its a good analogy, you just twisted it. I didn't say don't study grammar, I said too much too early can throw you off. I think learning "enough" as you go is best, stressing too much or trying to memorize rules without a feel for the language is just bad. You can take 3 days reading books about how to ride a bike, or you can try sitting on it, and trying out what the pedals do. Might be a slightly higher chance of injury, but once you get your balance you will be up and riding a hell of a lot faster. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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