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Understudied European languages | ||
Tags: European Languages | Rare Languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4818 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes  Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 73 of 85 30 August 2013 at 5:36am | IP Logged | |||||
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It's not about economics, that is just the symptom of the trouble. (Even though have you ever heard of a single one person learning Czech because of important business partners? :-D good joke) It's about the mentality. Can you imagine how many people here just don't understand that people can make a lot of money in totally honest ways and hard work and that it is alright? There are even morons who think the communism was better (and some of their arguments make me really wish they could be sent to the North Korea for an educational visit). Or people who do not value the freedom because it comes with responsibility. They are failing at their lives so they wish everyone else failed as well which is best ensured by flawing the system. There are many people who just refuse to see that you are not entitled to having the same social status as someone who just got born more gifted and worked hard on it for their whole life. And if you had seen the president such people elected directly, you would probably puke or laugh. He is one of those who just care about themselves which is the only reason why they try (and succeed) to get to high functions.
Economics is always just a consequence, a symptom. An important one of course. But the trouble lies elsewhere. In people without spine, in those without any ambition, in those who just wish to be lazy and cared for at the expense of others. People unable to think for themselves. That is the trouble. Perhaps that is the common "eastern" root some have been looking for. High % of these people is what holds not only this country back. My nations population isn't that nice. Not nicer than anywhere else. The cultural output is actually minimal. Much smaller than the output of similar sized countries like Sweden or Belgium. Or how many Czech writers can you name and how many Swedish ones? Kafka doesn't count, he wasn't a czech, and Kundera chose to be a french. It is crazy that someone would compare this country to Italy. There is a whole ocean of difference. Vast majority of czech cultural value was created between the 13th and the beginning of 20th century. Italy has been a cultural centre since Rome and stayed that way. So, I doubt my views are going to change. Not as long as I encounter here the stupid people wanting to damage the intelligent ones with ideas like "there should be no elite schools". Or those totally out of their minds and wanting to leave the EU and NATO. Or yet others (or the same) who just think this country is somehow the best in the world, Czech is the most difficult language and all the others do is to damage us. And the only moments when this country is in international newspapers is when some of the representants shames it. So, Czech is really not that understudied, considering the cultural output. The only group that would make sense to study it more would be people living next to the borders because there really are some places nice for a visit. But that's quite all. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| showtime17 Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Slovakia gainweightjournal.co Joined 5893 days ago 154 posts - 210 votes Speaks: Russian, English*, Czech*, Slovak*, French, Spanish Studies: Ukrainian, Polish, Dutch | Message 74 of 85 30 August 2013 at 10:12am | IP Logged | |||||
Well that type of attitude is exactly the reason why Italian is overstudied and Czech is understudied (in terms of ratio native speakers to learners). I have never heard an Italian say that Italian is a useless language. Italians are proud of their culture (sometimes even chauvinistic about it), while unfortunately that is not the case for many people from Slavic countries. In fact, many people from Slavic countries are ashamed of where they are from for some reason. It goes so far, that many for example Czech women marry foreigners and don't teach the kids Czech, because of exactly that attitude ("Czech is a useless language"). That is a great shame in my opinion and one of the main reasons why Slavic languages are understudied. If the natives aren't proud (and I don't mean chauvinistic)of their language and culture, then nobody else will. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5016 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 75 of 85 30 August 2013 at 11:43am | IP Logged | |||||
Really? Almost all of the Italians I've met since I started learning the language have been quite confused as to why, in their own words, I'm learning their "useless language". They're generally helpful and willing to speak it to me, but they never really get over the fact that I'm studying their language as opposed to one of the wealth of "more useful" languages out there. Yes, they mostly tend to be quite proud of it, but the idea of a foreigner learning it seems pretty strange to them. I'm not even convinced that Italian is very widely studied, at least beyond beginner level. Everyone loves it, thinks it's a beautiful language of a wonderful country, and says they want to learn it, but few actually do beyond some basic phrases. It seems to be a popular language to want to learn, as opposed to a popular language to learn. That said though, it's certainly one of the more popular choices on the forum, and even the fact that so many people have a passing interest in it says quite a lot. A big part of what attracted me to it is that Italian communities are indeed very widespread, and in recent years I've made friends with Italians, eaten at Italian restaurants, had Italian girlfriends, and heard the language a lot while out and about, so it had felt part of my life long before I even set foot in the country. I can't say the same about, say, Czech. I agree about Portuguese. It seems like the "unpopular" Romance language (along with Romanian), and Scandinavian languages for example seem to be far more popular than it. Even for me - I'm dead keen on French, Italian, and Spanish, while Portuguese is relegated to the "I'll learn a little bit if I ever go to the country" category. I think that again it might be because of the comparative amounts of exposure - I hear very little Portuguese and meet very few people who speak it, while I'm exposed to the others almost every day. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4516 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 76 of 85 30 August 2013 at 11:49am | IP Logged | |||||
I have been to Russia. The difference is huge. Czech Republic is firmly European to my mind in its structures, architectures, in its being. Russia is another ballgame entirely and not one I'd like to burn my fingers with. Honestly, I like both, except Moscow, I don't like Moscow. I would rather live in a beautiful, slightly decadent museum than a fancy, modern, soulless glass-meets-concrete building. I could never live in the States. I don't understand why they are capitalists but build like communists. For architecture, beauty, and pristine surroundings, I would stay within European borders or go to Korea or Japan or something. There's is nothing good about living in a bustling metropolis if all of its buildings make me feel like I'm entering a jail cell. I think Eastern and Central Europe (basically the Slavic countries, Hungary, Baltic states, Balkan) have a very bad rep in general that they do not deserve. The Czechs, with their beautiful buildings and beer, the very least. Edited by tarvos on 30 August 2013 at 11:54am 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| showtime17 Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Slovakia gainweightjournal.co Joined 5893 days ago 154 posts - 210 votes Speaks: Russian, English*, Czech*, Slovak*, French, Spanish Studies: Ukrainian, Polish, Dutch | Message 77 of 85 30 August 2013 at 12:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
I guess it depends on what Italians you meet. The ones I've met were for the most part proud of their language and encouraged me to learn it. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| pesahson Diglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5537 days ago 448 posts - 840 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: French, Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 78 of 85 30 August 2013 at 12:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I have no problem with the label Eastern Europe really. It basically means "countries that were under communist rule". I do think that in some ways people still have weird preconceptions about this part of Europe but re-labeling it won't change anything.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4818 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 79 of 85 30 August 2013 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks Chung.
showtime17, I think we just disagree on what is the most important factor in "deciding" whether the language is over, under or just all right studied. You seem to think the pure number of speakers is the way to go and perhaps all the other factors are unimportant? I believe the numbers are not that important because they would lead to these results: 1.If we speak of european languages as of the languages spoken in Europe, than English is waaaaaay overstudied considering the number of countries and natives. On the other hand, so is Spanish. Understudied are Polish, Russian, Ukrainian and most small languages. 2.If by european languages we mean languages of the indo-european family (as we mention other continents, especially americas often), than French and German are overstudied, perhaps Italian as well. Understudied are the Indian languages, Farsi and most slavic languages. So, it is clearly not just about the numbers. In my opinion, understudied are only languages that have large quantity and/or quality of cultural output and/or economic power which get much less attention than some languages with less "worth". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4818 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 80 of 85 30 August 2013 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Pesahson, it is not about exchanging one label for another. It is about breaking the mass hiding behind it in people's minds into groups (with labels or not) that make sense in today's world. I believe the label is especially harmful as all the EU countries should be treated the same. The new "labels" that make more sense would be EU countries and nonEU countries.
Or why does former western bloc get the luxury of being perceived as western, southern or northern europe (or sometimes even individual countries) while the whole central, eastern, baltic and southwestern europe with all the diversity gets under one ugly label? It might be as well possible that we are way past the point where the countries slowed down for fourty years could have became the equal partners. The language is just a symbol here, even though a very exact one. When a German businessparter meets the czech or polish counterpart, what language will they use? In 100% it will be either German or English. Or have you ever heard of an exception? When it will be a czech meeting a polish, they will most likely speak English, won't they? And it is true even for foreign companies staying here for decades. Even if they have dozens czech employees+ managers and one foreign manager, than it will be up to all the czechs to speak English, the manager isn't likely to learn any Czech. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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