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Definition of fluency | ||
Tags: Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5190 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes  Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 9 of 29 16 December 2010 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
Right. To the average person, there are 2 levels in speaking a language: 1) You speak it (i.e. you know some words), and 2) you are fluent (i.e. you can actually understand some of the language, and you can make sentences in it and be understood). Otherwise, the actual definition depends on who you ask and ranges from the meaning indicated in 2 above, all the way to speaking like a native. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5143 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 10 of 29 16 December 2010 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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From my point of view, you are fluent when you can speak the language without effort, and your grammar, vocabulary and pronunication is good enought to not bother the natives. I considered that I was fluent when I reached the point of "without effort.
At the moment, I would by my own definition only be fluent in English and Spanish, and I used to be fluent in French. As for Italian I can do the "without effort" part but I am not too hot on the grammar, and I have forgotten a lot of vocabulary. In German, I can't even do the "without effort". I can speak it, but it feels cumbersome, and I am more comfortable speaking one of the other languages. Hope I will be able to tackle that soon!! Oh, and for those who have gone through the topic countless times before, please keep in mind that there are always newcomers who might want to discuss it, and experienced participants who might have a new angle. Let them/us do so. On every discussion forum there are topics which are repeated over and over again, but nobody expects the veterans to contribute every time. That would bore them to tears. 8 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5239 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 11 of 29 17 December 2010 at 1:21am | IP Logged | |||||
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Heavens, not fluency again. I have nothing against revisiting old themes because there can be newcomers and new insights. But, please, why not use the term proficiency? These debates always get bogged down over the definition of fluency. I'm always amazed that people who take pride in speaking a language well continue to misuse the word fluency which has a very specific meaning in linguistics.
If you really mean fluency, as an aspect of speaking ability, then let's talk about that. But if you mean general ability in a language, proficiency is by far a better choice and is what is most used in the field of linguistics. Then there is of course the CEFR model of language proficiency which is very useful as a tool for discussing these issues. 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5765 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes Studies: French | Message 12 of 29 17 December 2010 at 1:25am | IP Logged | |||||
You are both wrong. Edited by Spanky on 17 December 2010 at 1:25am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| sparkles Newbie United States Joined 4900 days ago 2 posts - 5 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 13 of 29 17 December 2010 at 3:29am | IP Logged | |||||
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I am also a native English speaker, and while I love interestingly constructed sentences, I would just like to point out
how needlessly arrogant your first post sounded. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5154 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 14 of 29 17 December 2010 at 3:42am | IP Logged | |||||
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To feel at least as comfortable in your adopted language as you do in your own.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5239 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 15 of 29 17 December 2010 at 6:18am | IP Logged | |||||
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This question of fluency is a perfect of example of what is called in French "un vieux serpent de mer", an old story of something whose existence is doubtful. Actually, it is often used to refer to the habit of journalists who dig up some old story to fill out the news during quiet days.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5143 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 16 of 29 17 December 2010 at 10:47am | IP Logged | |||||
Hm. Then I think you need to fill me in on the difference between fluency and proficiency. In my language we only have one of those terms (fluency) so I may be insensitive to the difference. :-) Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 17 December 2010 at 10:48am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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