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Is it just me when learning a language? | ||
Tags: Learning Difficulty | Grammar | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| zekecoma Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5154 days ago 561 posts - 655 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish | Message 1 of 9 30 January 2011 at 3:37am | IP Logged |
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Well this might be dumb or something, I don't know. But, I've been thinking that, when we
look at our own native language and compare it to others. We don't remember a lot about rules, grammar, etc. It just comes naturally. But on the other hand when we are learning other languages from L2 to Lx. Do we natural just remember those rules all the time rather than when we look at it from our native language point of view, which causes us to always remember better than a native would? I might be just rambling or just repeating myself (I tend to do that a lot) :P. But I just wonder if it's just me that thinks that or have others? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Keilan Senior Member Canada Joined 4896 days ago 125 posts - 241 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 2 of 9 30 January 2011 at 5:20am | IP Logged |
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I don't entirely understand your question... but if you're saying what I think you are, then I would agree that you remember grammar better in your L2/Lx than in your native language (unless you specifically study grammar in your native language).
English grammar comes naturally to me, so I would say I know more of German and Koine Greek grammar than I know English grammar. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5576 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 3 of 9 30 January 2011 at 6:34am | IP Logged |
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Second language acquisiton and usage relies more heavily on declarative knowledge than one's native language - the latter makes better used of procedural knowledge. The upside of said procedural knowledge is the conscious understanding of rules and concepts, the downside is that it takes too much of one's processing capacity and therefor is more exhausting and more prone to error.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5036 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 4 of 9 30 January 2011 at 3:03pm | IP Logged |
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As said, the difference lies in a) exposition and b) use of your native language grammar, which for most people is ostensibly less than that of foreign languages. This difference comes from the fact that while it is obvious that grammar speeds up the process to learn Li where i ∈ {2...n}, teaching grammar to a L1 learner in a useful fashion is harder (so now in the English speaking world we don't even try).
However, as a child (preteen) I was exposed to both Spanish and English grammar as a native and foreign speaker (both explained in your mother tongue). Soon I realized 'that grammar thing' not only helped to understand 'that gibberish' better but it allowed me to use my L1 much more effectively as well, and I never looked back. As a teacher, one of the first things I do is to check my students' knowledge of their own grammar, and boost it a bit if needed, because it simply makes things oh so much easier. Just as knowing your students' language, but hey, don't tell anyone. Those things are anathema in modern language teaching ;) The thing is, I know I am the exception here, but I tend to remember quite a lot of grammar in any language I finally learn, for the aforementioned reasons. Only the really useful bits, though. Don't tell the grammarians either... 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| ThatAmericanKid Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4920 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes Speaks: English*, German | Message 5 of 9 30 January 2011 at 11:13pm | IP Logged |
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Something else I've noticed about grammar learning is that I learn different grammar concepts better in some languages than others.
For example: I always had a heck of a time with cases in German. Dative and accusative cases in particular always ran together for me. Although the definitions of dative and accusative are not similar, their usage in German is. In Latvian, though, there is no earthly way you can confuse dative and accusative. Latvian relies on cases much more than does German and to change a case changes the entire meaning of a sentance. Having learned that, now I can tell them apart in German as well, and can use them correctly. Funny story: In Latvian, "to be" and "to have" are a single verb, but in dative case, this indicates posession ie. "To me is the ball" and not "I have the ball." One day, talking about my family, I said to my Latvian teacher, "Mans brālis ir kaķis" and she burst out laughing. That sentance means "My brother is a cat." I needed dative case- "Manim brālim ir kaķis." I never forgot my dative case again. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| vilas Pentaglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6770 days ago 531 posts - 722 votes Speaks: Spanish, Italian*, English, French, Portuguese | Message 6 of 9 31 January 2011 at 1:02am | IP Logged |
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Are There Many Famous Musicians Who Can't Read Music?
The Beatles couldn't read music. There is some people who masters a foreign language without studying the rules and the grammar. You can have an ear for music , the same can happens with languages . 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5036 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 7 of 9 31 January 2011 at 1:09am | IP Logged |
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Pavarotti couldn't. So?
The question is, would you hitchhike or walk five hundred miles because learning how to drive a car seems too much work, or unnecessary? I wouldn't. Five mails? Maybe. Fifty?... 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5191 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 8 of 9 31 January 2011 at 4:33pm | IP Logged |
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It's certainly possible to learn the grammar rules of a foreign language to the point where they become automatic just as in your first language. It's a matter of creating habits. It's these habits that allow you to speak in your first language without thiking about grammar rules.
At the same time, many people understand the rules of their own language very well, and some spend a lot of time thinking about them when they are writing important or precise documents. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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