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Satisfied with the language? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| crafedog Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5630 days ago 166 posts - 337 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Korean, Tok Pisin, French | Message 1 of 18 06 November 2011 at 7:06pm | IP Logged | ||
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This is a bit of an unusual question but it's been bouncing around my head for a while
now. When are you satisfied that you have 'learnt' a language? By that I mean, when do you decide to 'officially' stop learning the language and move onto another one? I put parentheses around the words because arguably you could never stop learning a language (i.e. learning new words, expressions, colloquialisms). (you can skip the rest of the post below as it's just an explanation of the question/personal story but please do post your answer to the above question) ===================== I've been studying Spanish off and on for a while now. I had a big break in the middle and wanderlust and circumstances have hit me from time to time. I can understand about 95% of what I read and hear, only literature and certain accents give me problems at the moment. I haven't spoken it much for a while but I reckon a good 3-month language exchange with a native speaker would hopefully polish my speaking off to an arguably high enough level and fix the remaining issues I have (maybe). I wouldn't argue that I'm fluent in Spanish, I need more practice plus that's a tricky question anyway that I don't want to get into at the moment, and if I had no desire to learn any other language than Spanish then I would never stop learning it. However as I wish to move onto German (while maintaining Korean), I don't want to move into German prematurely/still unsatisfied with my Spanish progress but I honestly don't know what being satisfied with my Spanish progress should feel like. So to the people who feel that they have learnt another language and have since moved on to actively studying another one, at what level did you feel satisfied that you could 'quit' actively learning that language? Are you 100% accurate and do you understand 100% of what you perceive or are you 'less' than that but still satisfied nonetheless? Or to those who have not yet learnt another language to their satisfaction, when do you feel you will be satisfied with your progress in the language? (A weird and somewhat thorny question and I thank you for your patience in trying to unravel the above question/ramble) Edited by crafedog on 06 November 2011 at 7:10pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5146 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 2 of 18 06 November 2011 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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I would say that you are ready to move on, You will always need some upkeep,but if you understand 95% that sounds great.
My three main languages were finished at the University, so I guess I simply stopped studying it actively when I passed my final exams, and Italian and German I have just played around with, never saying "Now I will stop studying". In the first three I would think I was around 90% understanding and speaking, in the last two possibly at 70%. Do what your gut feeling tells you. Gut wins over mind in 99% of the cases. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5659 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 18 06 November 2011 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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For me a B1 / B2 level with a speaking capacity on Skype and a thinking fluency in my target language would allow me to put the active study process aside and consider focusing on the next target language. Start preparing a language exam in one of my foreign languages or start beginning to study an entire new language.
Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 06 November 2011 at 7:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6432 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 4 of 18 06 November 2011 at 8:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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You can never be rich enough, skinny enough, or know a language well enough.
I am never satisfied. For some reason, if you can't think of the right word in your native language, it might be frustrating, but not such a big deal. You think, "Oh, it's one the tip of my tongue. What is that word?" But you don't feel like a failure. It's something that happens to everyone. But in a foreign language, suddenly it means you don't know the language well enough. And then you lose confidence, and your accent gets worse, and you forget even more words... At least, that's how it is for me sometimes. Anyway, even though I don't feel I know Norwegian well enough, I no longer actually study it. There isn't really anything to study. The only way to improve is to read, write, speak and listen, and to stretch myself in those areas. I think my Norwegian is nearly as good as my English these days. (But my English has deteriorated from lack of use.) I've been thinking of working a bit on both of them, but it wouldn't really be language study in the usual sense. I would just maybe read some classics and other challenging books. "Real literature" rather than just murder mysteries and things. Also, I should probably write more. I had a much better vocabulary when I read a lot and wrote creatively. Anyway, I think you are probably ready to give up active study. There is no point when you feel that you really know the language. There will always be days when you feel a little embarrassed about your accent or not knowing a word. What really improved my Norwegian the most, was not studying the language, but studying in the language. I was at about the level you describe when I took a second degree. It was a bit difficult at first, but I was forced to read lots of books and write papers and of course listen to lectures. That really took me to a new level. You might not want to go quite so far as to go to college in a Spanish speaking country for the next few years, but you could try reading and studying things you are interested in on your own. You can probably find lectures or educational programs online as well. Or read and listen to good books. The point is to stretch yourself. It's just like building muscles -- you should keep trying to lift a little bit more weight. Find something difficult and do it until it starts to become easy, then find something more difficult. So my advice is to start on a new language and just use Spanish the same way you use English -- to learn things, to read things you enjoy, to communicate with people on things that interest you, etc. 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| prz_ Tetraglot Senior Member Poland last.fm/user/prz_rul Joined 4671 days ago 890 posts - 1190 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish | Message 5 of 18 06 November 2011 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well, it depends on the language. And first of all, I don't want and there is no need to stop the language learning - I want and would like to learn the books and, this way, assimilate new words and phrases.
Okay. If it comes to English, I think I won't be satisfied for a long, long time. Probably only the landmark situation that would show me "almost perfection" of my English could make me feel self-satisfied. You know, with English is also the problem of being a language without good knowledge of it you can't really find a satisfying job (especially connected with my interests). So if I'll still see too many people with better English skills, I'll get frustrated. The same situation is with the languages that are most connected with my possible future plans for life. But insofar as the rest of them level B2, maybe B1, or even A2 (when I'll be reaching the limit of my capability in number of the languages) will be satisfying... I guess. Though I'm a type of a perfectionist, who would always like to be better than currently (and, admittedly, when others are better than me). @Brun Ugle - i think you got a point. It's our perfectionism and high aims result in such effects. I think I'll, step by step, put your philosophy into effect. It's much better than getting paranoid states of mind not being well enough in something (not only in language). Thank you for your post, really. Edited by prz_ on 06 November 2011 at 8:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5038 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 6 of 18 07 November 2011 at 4:09am | IP Logged | ||
Whenever I stop wanting my money back. Regardless of methods and efficiency, there's always a point prior to which all your knowledge of a language would not be enough for the task at hand, which is different for every person and moment (It's a bit "It took me 25 years but tourists think I'm a native" vs "You didn't tell me I wouldn't know how to say **** after 45 hours".) If I can get by doing my stuff long enough without feeling the need for further study, school is out for summer. That's also why some of my languages -and other skills- never take off really unless I put myself to do some stuff. Edited by mrwarper on 07 November 2011 at 4:11am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| valkyr Triglot Groupie Romania Joined 4996 days ago 79 posts - 112 votes Speaks: Romanian*, EnglishC1, GermanB2 | Message 7 of 18 10 November 2011 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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Actually I find this a very useful question. I've thought about this numerous times.
The 80/20 rule applies to language learning as well, so past a certain point, months or even years of additional work are hardly visible in your speech and accent. What's important is to be able to easily maintain whatever level you want to reach. For example, my German is B1 currently. Even if I was satisfied with my level, maintaining it would really be a chore since I would be relegated to either wasting my time reading children's books or struggling with newspaper articles. Since neither option is particularly appealing I would not practice my skills and they would erode with time. On the other hand, if I got a "Grosses Deutsches Sprachdiplom" (which is above ALTE C2), I would also have troubles maintaining it, because in the absence of constant contact with natives, the finer points of the language would be forgotten and I would slide back to a less advanced level. You have to find the sweet spot. I believe that's around C1 for most languages. At this level you can read almost anything and watch movies without subtitles, which allows you to effortlessly maintain your hard gained knowledge of the language. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6432 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 8 of 18 11 November 2011 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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I definitely agree with Valkyr. A lot depends on what you use the language for. I live in Norway, so I need to know it pretty well. I will probably never have much real use for Japanese, even though I love it. So for Japanese, I would be satisfied to be able to read and understand the kinds of things I'm interested in and to watch movies and listen to audiobooks. And should some unlucky Japanese happen into my path, it would be nice to be able to talk to them well enough for them to understand what this crazy gaijin is going on about.
In any language there will be some areas we are good at and some we aren't. I studied physics in English and economy in Norwegian. I have trouble talking about physics in Norwegian because I've never had to. Likewise, I have trouble with economic and legal terms in English. I can read long boring legal documents in Norwegian and (assuming I stay awake) understand everything. In English, it's mostly gibberish. I often have to read it several times and look up words to find out what they mean in Norwegian. Anyway, I don't think it really matters that there are some blank spots. It doesn't matter that you don't know some words, or have forgotten them. My mother used to always say things like "Can you go get the doohickey from the kitchen? It's on top of the whatchamacallit, next to the whojiwhatsis." And we understood! It's definitely a good idea to learn the language to a level where you can comfortably read and watch movies though. That way you can maintain it easily and even absorb more. If you stop at too low a level, it is easy to forget everything you learned. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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