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The "flow" of fluency - by Idahosa Ness | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5812 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 33 of 38 13 December 2011 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
I think that says it all. Why use an example of bad class to support a complete change in methodology? It's a massive non-sequitur. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5231 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 34 of 38 13 December 2011 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Actually, after that terrible Spanish workshop the other day, I gave some thought to how I would have run it. In fact, at our language meetup group from time to time I do workshops on subjects in advanced French grammar. The workshop lasts about an hour and what I try to do is to engage everybody actively. I do a lot of choral repetition along the lines of what Dr Olle Killijn suggests and I use minidialogs between participants. It's nothing like Idahosa's RPT of course, but people seem to like it very much. The feedback has been totally positive. I am thinking about incorporating some of Idahosa's ideas in future workshops.
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 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6504 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 35 of 38 13 December 2011 at 8:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
There are written dictionaries for written sources, but a dictionary for spoken sources would either be based on invented spellings or it would be a speech recognition system with a liberal attitude. But I do see the need for books or - better - homepages in different languages where very standardized 'spoken abbreviations' were listed. Of course you can eventually learn them if you listen enough, but only if the situation or other clues tell what they mean - not just by listening to endless meaningless babble. Less standardized 'simplified' spoken forms are in my opinion best learnt when you already know what the full versions would be. The keyword here is "less standardized" - if nobody would ever say the full form it is better to acknowledge that there a special spoken expression, but then we need a place to look it up, on papir or in digital form. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5812 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 36 of 38 13 December 2011 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
"Abbreviation" is a misleading term here, and also a good reason why any attempt to write a "phonetically correct" rendering of slang versions. The terminology I'm used to is "reduced forms", because you can't always identify specific missing phonemes -- they're often all reduced. In English, for example, all the vowels end up as schwa. In glottal accents, the Ts are normally present as a very slight glottalised form, particularly if there's a lot of vowels about, and "I would have" reduces to I'd-a or I'd'v depending on the next letter. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6271 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 37 of 38 13 December 2011 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
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For anyone wishing to use this method for Chinese, may I recommend the song "中国话" by
S.H.E.? It's not just fast as hell, it also contains tongue twisters. If you can sing along to this, you can do ANYTHING in Chinese. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5231 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 38 of 38 14 December 2011 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
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If you want a relatively accurate representation of speech, you have to use a system of phonetic transcription. That is what it is for. And this is why many teaching materials use the IPA system. Interestingly, most American materials do not use IPA, preferring some home-made system that is not very accurate but is supposedly easier to learn.
What we are discussing here is more transliteration than transcription, i.e. trying to represent certain pronunciations by ordinary letters. We write things like "gonna" or "whassup" (what's up), etc. In French, "chu" is often used to represent a pronunciation of "je suis." All of this is inaccurate at best and not always standardized. Written English has a few standardized forms such as "I'm, I'd, he's, don't", but the representation of dialectal forms is a different story. In this regard, it should be pointed out that the great 1884 novel "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" by Mark Twain was written in various southern American dialects. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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